Why We Rate Our Stress Levels Out of 10 (And You Should Too)

Jordan: Welcome to another episode of For The Daring Growth Seekers podcast. If we haven’t met, my name is Jordan McFadyen. I am the founder of Done By Nine, a digital marketing agency. My wife here as well, Jacqueline, co-founder. It’s good to have you back. Another behind-the-scenes look at us as we navigate building a business together as a couple, but not only that, but also during a very disruptive time in history, where there is AI disrupting everything, search and discovery and how we market our business, and also we’re going through a recession in New Zealand, and all these challenges. So we wanted to document as much of it as we could on this podcast.

Jordan: And so, yeah, we’re grateful for you joining in and listening in on these conversations. As we joke about it quite often, they kind of turn into our couples therapy sessions. And this one is going to be a couples therapy session, because one thing I wanted to discuss today was, and we haven’t actually prepped or talked about this prior. We’re just coming in cold here.

Jacqueline: Coming in cold. We’re just chucked on the mic and just giving it a bit of a nudge.

Jordan: Obviously, we’re building a business together as a couple, but what we don’t talk a lot about, but what we sometimes mention, is how we’re not only just a couple that is able then to relax in the evenings, and go off and have wine and talk about business over dinners. And we’re going on morning runs together, where we really get to focus and get things done. And we have four children as well.

Jacqueline: We do, we do.

Jordan: And four children ranging from the age of five up to 13. And it was this morning over coffee as well that we, that’s one thing we do do, is we try and have a morning coffee together. We jump in the car and at least try to get 15, 20 minutes in the car together having a coffee. And there was just an Instagram post that you saw, and then it reminded me of a podcast. And we listened to a lady that you like quite a bit, Dr Becky, yeah?

Jacqueline: Yeah, I love Dr Becky.

Jordan: And so Dr Becky focuses, just for the uninitiated… Oh, focuses on family, yeah?

Jacqueline: Like, focuses on connection with kids, and challenging moments, and yeah, gives you support.

Jordan: And look, there was an episode today about deeply feeling kids, and that’s all well and good, but it got me thinking around the fact that it is really challenging for us to navigate, and for a lot of business owners to navigate, parenting as well as actually trying to run a business, lead a team, serve our clients, remain profitable.

Jacqueline: Yeah, all those things. It’s kind of like parenting, it’s supposed to be this natural instinct of, you should know what to do, but without learning, or having ideas out there to direct you in the right way, I don’t think it’s going to just come naturally.

Jordan: Okay, so just to give a bit of insight, how do you see right now, do you have a system or something in your head that kind of helps you figure out how to manage kids versus business, and how do you fit it all in? Because that’s a question you get all the time as well. How do you fit it in? How do you fit all of this in?

Jacqueline: Well, it definitely doesn’t, let’s be honest, fit between the nine and five, like business. And yeah, it’s great having a business. Yes, you can manipulate it and show up at your kids’ cross country, or juggle it here and there, but the work definitely doesn’t disappear. Because that’s the hard thing, I also think. In return, there is some late-night laptop opening, or early morning laptop opening, or there is, yes, I’m going to go to the beach today, it’s lovely, let’s go with the kids, but then I’m going to return home and I’m going to open my laptop on a Sunday morning or a Saturday morning. It’s just the reality.

Jordan: Okay, but then how about the mindset of that? This is the one thing that sometimes I struggle with, and I feel as though that you have it much better under control, that you’re able to, you do have this unique ability to, and maybe it’s just on the face of it, to be able to turn off from business and turn into mum mode pretty easily and really well. Or am I misreading that, and while you’re in mum mode in the afternoons or evenings, you’re also still taken away with business in the background? Or are you able to separate them? Because I feel as though, for me, I kind of have both kind of going, and maybe it means that sometimes I’m not giving 100% to either one, and I guess that’s a problem I need to work with.

Jacqueline: Here we go. The true therapy session is going to come out. Maybe we should be recording this on a Friday night.

Jordan: But what I’m thinking is that I see it from your, well, this is from my perspective, and I want to know from your head, is that what it is? Are you able to switch completely off and completely on, or is there a bit of element to both? And if so, how do you do it?

Jacqueline: How do I do it? I don’t think there’s no secret recipe of how to do it. Sometimes there’s that to-do list, and that’s piling high and needing to get crossed off, and it can build in other ways. But I think it’s prioritising, right? And sometimes those ideas will be ticking along in the background, but it’s being able to make a note, put it on pause. I need to show up for my kids here, or this is going to turn to a shit storm, and everyone’s going to end up fighting and arguing. And then being able to come back: that was my note. Yes, that’s where I was at, jumping back into it.

Jordan: But sometimes I feel like the expectations of businesses, business owners, responding straight away if a new enquiry comes through, all that type of stuff, which I kind of do believe and think that it’s important. But then it’s just, how do you fit, and I guess that’s where you, it’s about building systems, and building a business where there are systems to be able to get some of those mini interactions done on autopilot.

Jacqueline: Yeah, I’d definitely say it’s about systems and internal processes that we perhaps have within the team, for me to let go, because I can’t be that responsive person, and for other people to take care of that part. Definitely response time.

Jordan: Okay. Going back to that question around mixing between the two. Being totally honest, as the CEO of the family, is that all sunshines and rainbows, and have you got the tidiest house available? I know the answer to this, but I’m just trying to get that perspective that it’s not all Instagram-worthy posts.

Jacqueline: It’s not all Instagram-worthy posts. It’s not all about perfection. I think it’s consistency. It’s about showing up. I think it’s important to be there at three o’clock for the kids for pickup, but that then does mean that my workflow falls elsewhere throughout the day. It doesn’t just disappear. Nobody’s there magically doing it for me.

Jordan: So do you have any non-negotiables? When it comes to family or work, is there non-negotiable time that is like, I’m just not going to look at my phone at that time, I’m never going to look at my laptop there, don’t even try to call me during this time? Do you set boundaries yourself from that perspective, or do you remain relatively fluid?

Jacqueline: I think we have that practical mealtime. Mealtime is definitely a no-device stage, but then I think there is that communication between the two of us of, okay, I really need to respond to this. I need five or ten minutes, because I need to go and get this actioned, or follow up with, or put out a fire, or attend to it. So I think that’s the communication, right, between you and me. That’s like, I don’t know, almost like that Thursday or something. You’re walking in the house and I’m like, I’m at a three. I need you to step away from that computer, and I need you to jump in here and support.

Jordan: That was on a podcast you learned. And it’s actually been an okay little system for us, of actually kind of judging, and literally just using that as a simple thing between us, around putting yourself on a scale. And so if you’re pretty much at zero, zero would be, I’ve got no energy, no patience, no nothing. I feel like crap. I just need…

Jacqueline: I’m not going to respond well.

Jordan: Yeah. So it’s kind of like that real quick check-in of, hey, by the way, I’m at a two, we’re going to need to work together on this, versus being honest about the fact I’m actually at a six or a seven or an eight or a nine or a ten right now. I’m good to go. So if you need some space, or you need to go do something, go do it now, because I’m feeling really good right now. And I guess that actually has been one thing that’s been really good to us as working parents, is just having even that quick 30-second check-in, like, I’m a three.

Jacqueline: Yeah. Like, let’s stop and let’s connect, because otherwise that just downward spiral, right? It gets messy.

Jordan: Because it does get stressful too, yeah?

Jacqueline: Oh yeah, it gets stressful when there’s demands, like the kids need things, or they’ve had a bad day, or it can change the perspective of how you thought an afternoon was going to go. So it’s that expectations versus reality.

Jordan: And so how do you… I’m also just keen to get an understanding about your mindset of trying to fit in the you time as well. How do you fit in the you time for yourself personally? Because you’re very good at being able to get up at 5.30, and you’re like one of those annoying Instagram posts where you see, oh, my daily routine of getting up at 5.30, doing six workouts and a healthy breakfast before six o’clock.

Jacqueline: I don’t think that’s been true. It’s not perfect. It hasn’t been there from day dot, right? It’s kind of developed over time.

Jordan: But what I’m trying to say is you’ve got, you do have a much better mentality about being able to face the alarm, get up and just get shit done, where I’m much more likely to hear the alarm, pick up the phone, scroll through, have a look at emails.

Jacqueline: The worst thing in the world.

Jordan: Yeah, so it’s kind of that mentality. How do you reckon? Why do you have that? Or is that something you, do you still have to push yourself in the mornings to be able to do that?

Jacqueline: Definitely mornings I have to push myself, but then I think it’s also, I think it comes back to community and that core, right? Turning up to those classes with people, just a friendly space, saying hi, catching up on, I don’t know, minor things that are going on in the month, that type of thing. It’s just showing up and connecting, I think, which gets me up in the morning. There are mornings where I feel tired, but then I also think it’s finding out what is your true, true to self. You’re much more of a night owl, right? You can do things later at night than what I can at times.

Jacqueline: I think it’s that goal and that drive driven, like what works for you. Some people like to take the morning slow, have coffee, have a slow stretch, or some people just want to get in, get going, get that to-do list done. So I know where the roadmap is, the lay of the land for the rest of the day.

Jordan: Remember those conversations where you used to sit there and think, what did we used to do with our time before we had kids? And I know that’s, especially for couples that don’t have children, they may not understand that fully, but for parents that are working, parents that are building a business like what we are, sometimes you do look back at those times and you think, shit, we really didn’t make the most of that time.

Jacqueline: Is it finding those holes, because sometimes your day is controlled that there is literally no me time? So is it learning to work out and to navigate that schedule, to find those little gaps and windows, on the perspective of having kids and not having kids? When you don’t have kids, it’s kind of luxurious, right?

Jordan: It feels like that.

Jacqueline: It feels like that, but you think you’re so busy, but you can actually, they’ll have other pressures.

Jordan: Other challenges, yeah.

Jacqueline: Yeah, other challenges, but you have that decision of when you want to do things. As a much more luxurious time management, perhaps, perspective.

Jordan: It’s one of those things I always do think about. But the other thing was around, I do think that parenting has unlocked and unexpectedly helped us run and do different things in our business. What do you reckon? What would be the biggest parenting skill that you’ve been able to bring into the business to make it better?

Jacqueline: It’s those challenging conversations, because I think your resilience is built up over challenging times, when you’re hustling to get something done or get out the door, and you have that resistance by a child, which is just pushing your buttons. I actually wanted to ask you a question. What is your dream ideal day? Is it the laying in bed and scrolling, or is that something that you want to change?

Jordan: I don’t know. For some reason, you have that moment where you think, you know, having a lie-in would be good, but then I’ve been married to you for, well, we’ve been together for 20 years, so I haven’t had a lie-in, because you’re not a lie-in type of person. And so I was a lie-in person before I met you.

Jacqueline: Is that like a non-negotiable that you wish you found out sooner?

Jordan: Yeah, maybe. This is turning into a real therapy session. It’s taken me 20 years to figure that one out. Look, I guess the main thing for me is thinking about, and that’s why I was asking that first question about whether you can switch fully on and fully off, or whether there’s something still running on in the background. So for me, I always feel as though that there’s something running in the background, in terms of the business, and something running. But I also, I don’t see it challenging me, but I don’t see that as massively negative all the time.

Jordan: I would hope that our children also grow up understanding that nothing comes for free. That you’ve got to work hard for things. That they’ve seen some of our darker moments with business. They’ve seen the stress. They’ve experienced that. They’ve also seen us go through those stresses and come out the other side, based on hard work, and not just getting a handout. So it’s not like they’ve seen us face a challenge, or a challenging conversation, or something within the business, and that we’ve suddenly just, that they’ve seen this man with a briefcase walk in and say, well, here’s a million dollars to fix your problems. Well done. So they haven’t seen that. So I guess that’s one thing that I think is kind of positive about being an entrepreneur trying to build a business with young kids kind of watching from the sides.

Jordan: But I think the main thing that I would still, yeah, I guess it’s just that thing of grappling of how much time do you turn off. I think we’re getting better at turning off. Like, we used to work, well, I used to especially work weekends, long hours, never seeing that. Well, we did see the kids. It’s unfair to say, but it’s about 100% being there with the kids, you know.

Jacqueline: It was hustling, right? It was hustling, but I think the time has got a little bit perhaps more even now, or the presence. There’s still the work to get done, but I think it’s knowing when to be fully present and not half present. I’m not trying to, I’ll be with you in two minutes, I’m just doing this. I think it is that turn off, turn on, and just being able to adapt to it a lot better. But we wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s the lifestyle that seems to work for us. It’s hard work.

Jordan: It’s difficult to manage your family, which I appreciate that you do a lot of that. Managing the family aspect, to allow me to spend a bit more time in the late afternoons, early evenings before dinner, kind of in the office. So I think that’s really important. And just circling back, in closing, to even around the Dr Becky mentality. If you haven’t listened to that podcast or looked at her community, it’s called Good Inside. And she talks about the importance of being good enough parents, rather than the absolute perfect ones. So I think that pretty much sums up most working parents, do you reckon?

Jacqueline: Definitely not perfect. Just going for consistency. And I think that also then goes back to business as well, and building a business, instead of striving for perfection 100% at every time, just trying to get things out that are good enough.

Jordan: Just that 1% better every day, eh? Like, just trying. Well, look, that’s been an interesting kind of look into the inner workings of your mind, in terms of a CEO of a family, but also running a CEO of a business as well, and how to kind of manage the two. And let’s just see how that develops. Obviously, we’re in that space now where our children are five years and over. So I think we had this conversation the other day, like…

Jacqueline: Are we hitting the next bracket, do you mean?

Jordan: It’s going to get… Like, is it going to get easier or more challenging?

Jacqueline: Well, there’s going to be certain challenges that will get easier, as in reliance on helping kids get dressed and serving them food. That’s going to get potentially easier, but then it’s going to come into much more challenges as they come into the teenage years. But again, hopefully we can see, as we’re building a business and showing them hard work and how that can pay off, hopefully that’s going to build resilience into their teenage years as well. But we’ll kind of see how that goes. What’s the one main thing that you would want the kids to walk away with, having watched all of this growing up, having the family and the business side by side? What’s their one perspective key thing that you’d want them to take away?

Jordan: Hard work. But then I’ve told them many times that the reason we’ve had four kids is because we want one of them to be a multi-millionaire who can put us through retirement. So if we can get one of those, if we can get one out of four, then we’re doing well. But look, I think the big thing is, yeah, just hard work. Nothing’s for free. Nothing gets handed to you on a platter. Hard work. Hustle. Be awkward. Meet new people. Push yourself. Push yourself to meet new people. Do things that you’re scared of. Do things that are uncomfortable, and keep growing.

Jacqueline: Yeah, nice.

Jordan: Well, look, yeah, that’s been good. It’s been a good little insight into your inner workings, and the inner workings of a parent. If you are a parent listening to this, hats off to you. We get you. We’re riding the same rides. And again, as we kind of always say in these podcasts as well, always keen to meet new other working parents. If you’re listening, and we haven’t met before, please email us. Introduce yourself. Always keen to meet new people, and kind of work through this together as well, because it’s always a fun journey. But again, thanks so much for spending your lunchtime with me, recording this podcast. It’s probably time to go get some food, actually. And we’ll be back again on another episode, behind the mic on For The Daring Growth Seekers podcast.