Leadership Lessons from an Emerging Director

Jordan: As a leader, how do you deliver tough feedback that builds your team up instead of tearing them down? My guest on the podcast today built an award-winning career on a real simple but powerful principle of being clear but be kind. So today we’re going to unpack how that approach is actually transforming the way that she leads, and how you can lead as well. If we haven’t met before, my name is Jordan McFadyen. Welcome to the For The Daring Growth Seekers podcast, a podcast designed to help you navigate this cluttered world of marketing and business in the AI era. And today’s show is just a little bit different, because we’re going to be sharing a conversation that we actually originally recorded.

Jordan: Each Monday I appear on the Business Hour show on a local radio station called The Most FM. We’ve got a wonderful sponsor there, Social Kitchen. And essentially what we do is each Monday we interview another Taranaki business leader, and learn more about how they lead, how they run their business, and how they navigate all the challenges that we have in business as well. So for this interview, I’ve joined my co-host Adam Harris, and we sat down with Jessie Waite. Now, Jessie’s career path, real fascinating one. She went from being a journalist at the local Stratford Press all the way up to being a respected leader in New Zealand’s primary industries.

Jordan: She took on significant roles in both management and governance across that time. In fact, in 2022 she even won the Institute of Directors Emerging Director Award, which in itself is a massive achievement. So in the conversation that we had with her that we’re going to share today, Jessie shares how she builds her career by taking a few risks, focusing on people, learning on the job. And we get into her approach to leadership, which she describes as being clear but kind, as I said before. Also, we chat about how she’s navigated being a young female leader in a traditionally male-dominated rural sector, and why she believes your personality can actually be more powerful than any piece of paper. Let’s get into it.

Jordan: We’re joined in the studio by Jessie Waite, North Island Regional Partner Team Leader for OSPRI. Good morning. That’s a bit of a mouthful.

Jessie: It is a mouthful.

Adam: What does it mean, Jessie?

Jessie: What does it mean? It means I get to have an amazing job of looking after farmers in Taranaki with the programmes that OSPRI runs. So for those that don’t know what OSPRI is, it’s not the outdoor clothing brand. And it’s not the kiwifruit company, because that’s Zespri. So OSPRI runs three programmes. We’ve got NAIT, we’ve got TBfree and we’ve got M. bovis free. So M. bovis and TB are both diseases that we have… thankfully, touch wood, we don’t have M. bovis at the moment. But they’re both diseases that we’ve had in our cattle in New Zealand, and we’ve got it in our wildlife when it comes to TB in New Zealand as well. And so our goal is to eradicate those diseases, so that we can make sure that we’ve got a really strong farming industry and we’ve got the export market. And so NAIT’s the traceability part. So essentially it’s like COVID tracing for cattle and deer. We know where they’ve been, where they’ve travelled, where they were born.

Jordan: So how are you doing that? Is that through microchips, or tagging, or?

Jessie: Tagging. So there are RFID tags that are in the ear, and they have then lifetime traceability. We did look at microchips, but they travel, and our export market would get shut down very quickly if some geezer in Japan had his steak and ate a microchip. So we’re going to avoid that.

Jordan: So how did you get into this?

Jessie: Just by chance. There was actually a, what are they called, job ad in the paper. I’m probably showing my age to the younger listeners at the moment, but there was a job ad in the paper, and I thought, you know what, I think I’m going to give this a go.

Adam: But hold on, you started in journalism as well.

Jessie: I did.

Adam: So working down south, Taranaki?

Jessie: Stratford. I actually applied for an admin role. Finished my journalism course here in Taranaki at WIT, and applied for an admin role, because that was the only job going in a paper at the time. And they were like, you know what, you’re great, but would actually prefer you as a journalist. And I was like, sign me up.

Adam: And that was just in the first interview?

Jessie: First interview. I mean, you’ll see at the end of this and just be like, why I got the job.

Adam: Yeah, because why journalism?

Jessie: I think it was one of those things at school, English was my forte. And I kind of grabbed onto that, and I went, tried to get into broadcasting school, got an interview, which for me was quite a highlight. And then they’re like, no, thank you. And so I headed along to the Career Expo, and Robin Martin, who was running the journalism diploma at WIT, said, why don’t you come and do the course for a year and see if you like it? Got a scholarship, headed along for a year of the diploma, and loved it, and then cracked into my career as a journalist.

Adam: Wow. And that was, what, 19?

Jessie: So I was saying earlier, I kind of weighed up: do I go to university for three years, hoping it’s something that I like? Or do I do a year diploma and then have two years’ work experience and have a few more? So, no, I’m pleased with my decision.

Jordan: And did you go back to uni after that, or you’ve just kind of carried on your career since?

Jessie: Just carried on the career.

Jordan: Amazing.

Adam: And Jessie, when you look at some of your peers that may have gone to university, has it made any difference?

Jessie: Bless them, a lot of my friends who went to university are not doing a job that they studied.

Jordan: Or want.

Jessie: Or want. Yeah, that’s probably also a fair statement. Bless them. They had a fun time. Did you go to university, Adam?

Adam: Yeah.

Jordan: So I actually, it’s funny, you mentioning this, I’ve got a very similar path to you. I actually started broadcasting school as well. Didn’t go to the Christchurch one, went for just a year-long course in Wellington, and decided to skip uni as well. Just did courses and just found a job and carried on. And so it seems similar to your journey as well, you know?

Adam: Well, it’s funny, just before we were getting on air, we were talking about, is university fit for purpose? You think about what people are studying now, and the access to information. And it’s that relevance piece.

Jessie: Yeah, I think the whole education space is going to change quite fast, quite rapidly. I think it’s going to have to.

Jordan: And then you’re mentioning, so you’re on the job, you’re working in journalism, you’re kind of getting that experience. But then, how long were you in that journalism role for before you started to branch out?

Jessie: So I would have been at the Stratford Press maybe two years, and then the company that owned the paper at the time said, hey, there’s a gig going at the Oamaru Mail. How do you feel about that? And I was like, can I please quickly Google where that is? And so they’re like, sure. Hey, look, we’ll fly you down, see if you like the place, if you like the team. And so I headed down there. And I don’t know if you guys have been there, but as soon as I walked through the precinct, the old buildings, I was like, I can absolutely live here. It was beautiful. The crew took me next door to the pub, and we had the best nachos I’d ever had, and I was like, sign me up.

Jessie: And so I carried on my journalism career down there, and then I kind of got to the point where I was like, I don’t know if there’s a future for me in paper. I’d kind of seen that to progress, I was probably going to have to go to places I didn’t want to have to go. I didn’t want to be ringing people’s widows around a car crash, and I didn’t want to be doing court reporting, and I didn’t want to be doing the clickbait stories that, at the time, was kind of where you had to go to progress in the paper. And so I actually ended up going to sales and marketing for the licensing trust there.

Adam: Let’s just go back slightly. So help us understand that period, and that thinking, and kind of the realisation of, maybe this isn’t for me.

Jessie: I really love the people stories. The really lovely stories that you guys would get to come across in your guys’ roles here. But as a 23-year-old, I just didn’t know if that was going to be a career progression piece for me. The community papers are fantastic, and I think it’s sad to see them starting to dwindle. But it just didn’t seem like it was going to be my future. And I did a little bit of writing on the side, like a bit of a bogan. So I’d do the Stratford Speedway articles and keep in the loop there. But it was a bit of a thought that came into my head, going, I don’t think this is you for the rest of your life.

Adam: Who was supporting you through that?

Jessie: Oh, that’s a good question. Because I think, especially at the time, I was a long way from home. Which was an interesting place to be at that young age as well. But you create your own family when you move. Like, you know this, coming to New Zealand, you do create your own family. And so I had some really cool mates around me that were like, go for gold. Whatever your next step is, just jump at it. And that mentality, I think, has been what I’ve surrounded myself with. And I think that’s why I’ve enjoyed progressing my career without having any kind of university degree, or a lot of training under my belt: it’s just the people around me supporting me and saying, just give it a go. I think it’s Richard Branson, eh? If you get an opportunity and you don’t know what you’re doing, say yes and learn later. And I’ve absolutely lived by that.

Jordan: It’s kind of having that risk mentality too, yeah? It sounds like you’ve really got that behind you, to just take a punt and say, yeah, let’s go.

Jessie: Yeah, it’s like a haircut. It grows back. Give it a whirl. See what happens.

Adam: Yeah, I mean, it kind of reminds me, you spoke about Richard Branson. The aspect around improv is “yes, and”. So you take the gift that’s in front of you, whatever it is, and go, oh, okay, cool, I’ve got to deal with it. And I think one of my observations a lot of the times is that there’s a resistance to change. That’s the only thing that really is certain, is change. I mean, it kind of goes back to education, is that we’re taught to resist and hold on. But when you’re actually able to go, okay, cool, now where and what? The joy and the opportunities that creates is great.

Jessie: My flatmate was talking about change not long ago. And I was like, oh, I get really excited about change. She’s like, you’re probably the only person I’ve ever heard say that.

Adam: Oh, really?

Jessie: Yeah. I just think it’s quite exciting. Because you can go back. Well, you can, but also you can create new stuff.

Adam: And the learning that comes off the back of it.

Jessie: 100%. And the people you meet along the way.

Adam: Change for you, Jordan?

Jordan: I wouldn’t say I’d be doing what I’m doing now if I didn’t enjoy change, and taking a bit of a risk. I think any business owner, you need to have that behind you a little bit, that mentality of, there are going to be things outside of your control that you just need to adapt with and change and go with the flow. So I think you kind of do need that as a bit of a quality, eh?

Jordan: So you’re in media. Obviously now, with what you’re doing now, how do you get into agriculture? Agriculture, suddenly. How do you get into that sector? Was there a bit of a link? I understand from previous conversations you’ve got family, and farming’s been in your roots for a while.

Jessie: I think I have to probably thank New Zealand Young Farmers for solidifying my place in the primary sector, because it was a trip that my friends who were involved were doing, and if I was a member, I got to go for free. And so I did that, and it was a great trip. Great opportunity. It’s fantastic. Free trip, you lost to sign me up. And the South Island has this beautiful rural community base, and just the people in it hooked me, hook, line and sinker.

Jessie: And so when I moved back to Taranaki, there was thankfully a job going at the Taranaki Federated Farmers unit, and it was an administrative role. And I thought, we’ll give this a go, and loved it. The people within our Taranaki farming community are just incredible, and they’re innovative, and they are looking for the next opportunity, and they all embrace change. And so they were the kind of people I was like, right, we’ll surround myself here with these people. And did that role for four years, really trying to make my mark.

Adam: People underestimate an administration role.

Jessie: Well, it is tough. It is a big job, and you’re basically everyone’s helper. And so I got to learn a lot of skills, and I got to learn a lot of people. And I think that’s what got me this current job, was just people connection, because I had nothing else on the CV to say, hey, hire this girl. But thankfully they saw something in me.

Jordan: That’s kind of like that superpower. And I get that sense from you as well, that communication and people seems to obviously have been what’s got you to where you are. And I guess, without jumping too far ahead in your story, obviously that’s a big part of what you do now, is communication and relationship building, I guess, isn’t it?

Jessie: It is. And it’s funny, because just a couple of months ago, my role changed a little bit, taking on the regional comms for the North Island. And I joked with my boss at the time, because I said, this is funny, because this is the only part of my job that I’m actually trained to do. And I’ve been here for nearly five years. So it felt very full circle, which is lovely. So I’ve kind of been able to bring it back into my…

Jordan: So if anyone’s sitting here listening and thinking that their CV doesn’t look stacked with university qualifications and all this previous job experience, but they do have a real good superpower, what’s kind of your advice to those type of people?

Jessie: I have said to some friends recently, who are trying to find a different career change, as I said, go in and talk to them, because you’ll sell them with your personality before you ever sell yourself with a CV.

Adam: With a bit of paper.

Jessie: So if you have that opportunity to do so, I highly recommend doing that. But CVs with AI these days…

Adam: And interviewing. Let’s be honest. People have become professional interviewees. Especially when it’s online.

Jordan: AI can be telling you the answers.

Adam: Yeah, exactly. Get a transcript. Done.

Jessie: Exactly. But I think with AI these days, you can put a lot more personality into your CVs. And I think try and step away from the status quo of what you think someone wants to look at when it comes to a CV or a cover letter. Because it’s so hard to sell yourself in a bit of paper. And I know from hiring people, I’m a bit judgy on the old CVs. I really want to see you come through in what you’re putting forward in a bit of paper. But like I say, if you can, get in and meet them.

Adam: Just want to go back. This aspect around your open communication, and your ability to be able to connect with people. Have you always had that? Or have you built it over time?

Jessie: I think I’ve always had it. My family would probably joke that I will go anywhere, and I’ll walk off and I’ll meet someone, and have a chat to them, and I’ll be able to tell my family their whole life story by the time we’ve finished the get-together. So I think it honestly also comes from that whole, you’re built by a village. And I had that upbringing. And so I was always surrounded by really cool, diverse people, from not just my family, but from a whole range of backgrounds. And I think having that as my upbringing probably built the kind of personality I would say I am today, being pretty open.

Jordan: And so what do you think it is about you, or how you meet people originally, that you can learn so much about someone? Is it going back to some of those journalism skills that you’ve got? Or is it that you’ve just got a genuine interest in people?

Jessie: Probably the genuine interest.

Adam: And do you think that’s a big thing? Because for people that, and I’m one of these, I’m fine to talk in a room like this, or talk in front of thousands of people. But sometimes at networking events and things like that, I can find it really difficult.

Jessie: Networking events are intimidating. Why? Because everyone just wants to small talk.

Adam: So how do you get out of the small talk, into learning about someone’s life? I’m really keen to understand from your perspective.

Jessie: Yeah, I think curiosity has to be one of the coolest qualities that you can have, because everyone has a story. And there will be something about every single person that you find interesting or you can link to. I don’t know if you guys have ever done the activity where you’re kind of sitting in a circle and someone says something about them, and then the next person connects, how they can find relevancy with what they’ve spoken to. And connection’s huge. But you just got to be curious.

Jordan: Jessie, have you got any go-to questions that you ask when you’re kind of in those situations, to build that connection or rapport?

Jessie: That’s a good question. Not really, to be honest.

Jordan: To start a conversation.

Jessie: It’s very ad hoc, if anyone knew who they are.

Adam: I think it’s very beneficial, in the fact that you’re a smiley person. And even on the radio now, I’m sure our listeners can hear, you’ve got energy. And actually, even just having a smile and having energy just puts the other person, just drops them into a comfortable state. And then you can just then start having a conversation.

Jessie: Yeah, absolutely. Nah, people are pretty cool.

Jordan: And I guess it’s that mentality, alongside all the other kind of qualities that you’ve spoken about so far, which clearly has done really well for you, as in being able to communicate with people and connect with people, and take risks and challenges here.

Jessie: Yeah, because, let’s be honest, people are very complex, and I’ve learned that over the last year and a half leading a team now, which is a whole new space for me, but super excited to really deep dive in what good leadership looks like. But you’ve got to change up your own style so often for different people. And human interaction, it blows my mind.

Adam: How would you describe yourself as a leader?

Jessie: Empathetic.

Adam: That was, like, no thought, straight off the bat. I sense it’s something that you are very consciously aware of on a daily basis.

Jessie: I try to lead with clear but kind. And I think as long as you are really clear about what you’re talking to someone, but you’re empathetic, then it’s a really beautiful balance of showing leadership, but showing that you support them through that process, especially in those hard conversations, because they’re not fun to have. But if you can be clear and kind, you will keep your team building.

Adam: Can you give us an example of what you mean by clear and kind?

Jessie: A team member not performing. You’ve got to be really clear about what those parts of the role they’re not performing in. They’ve got to be clear examples. But you’re not doing it to be a dick. There’s a difference, to me, between boss and leader. And I sit very much in the leader piece, because you’re there to build them up. You’re there to stand alongside them. You want to see them grow. So if you have to give them hard feedback, you have to be specific about it, but you’ve got to show that you care about them. And that, I think, is super important.

Adam: Where did you learn that from?

Jessie: I always want to be kind. The clear part’s my hard piece. Because I want to be kind, I can fluff around the words to try and not hurt them. But actually, all it does is confuse them. So the clear piece is where I’m really trying to work at the moment.

Jordan: I was just going to say, so how are you learning these skills? Do you have a coach? Do you go to courses? Where are you kind of learning those leadership skills? Because I know we’ve jumped a little bit in your story, but obviously going to where you are now, and such a large leadership role, there’s a lot of skills you need to probably learn over that time, from these different careers, yeah?

Jessie: It’s a mixture. I have an amazing boss who has fantastic leadership skills, and she’s continuously coaching me, and I’m really grateful to have a leader like her. But I love a podcast. Brené Brown, that lady, she just has such amazing golden nuggets of advice. But I think I actually lead from watching my leaders a lot. Executive presence is really big, because then you can pick up those, their body language and how they structure a sentence. I use a lot of holding words, which I’ve probably done in this interview, of “I think”, and I’ve got to get rid of those, because that’s not creating clear sentences.

Jordan: You’re looking at me because I do this all the time.

Adam: Go on then, Jordan.

Jordan: Me and Adam are having conversations, and he’ll pull me up all the time. Do you think or know?

Adam: Because there is a really interesting piece around this, in the fact that I would reckon 85% of the time when we say “I think”, actually, you actually know. And there’s this little hesitance in your gut that you’re like, oh, but do I want to be too confident with this? But the other thing is that, actually, from a leadership perspective, you’re giving a level of uncertainty and not clarity with whoever you’re speaking to. So if I’m going, hey, Jessie, I think we should do that piece of work over there, it just puts levels of doubt. Whereas if I go, hey, Jessie, I know we need to do that piece of work over there, and I’ve extenuated the tonality, but it really does make a difference as a leader.

Jessie: It does.

Adam: So I’m often saying to Jordan and other people, it’s like, do you think or do you know? And just that question.

Jessie: And I’ve heard myself do it this morning already. And it is one of my goals for the next 12 months: less holding words.

Adam: But I think the thing for me is that awareness is the first sign of that. And more often than not, we don’t have that awareness. If we’re not in an environment where somebody can pull us up, or take it from there, it’s not possible.

Jordan: We’ve been talking, obviously, a lot about leadership. And another big topic that I really wanted to discuss with you this morning was that role in governance. Now, one of the big things we should say here: you won the Institute of Directors Emerging Director Award in 2022, which is a massive achievement, especially when we think, you’ve shared, obviously, started from a journalism career, the Stratford Press, and now suddenly in 2022, you’re getting an award like that. That’s pretty impressive, yeah?

Jessie: There was definitely a highlight in the career, getting that award. And I think it was just a nice acknowledgement that I was doing the right thing. The skills that I’d learnt, or that I didn’t even believe I had, I actually did. And so it was nice recognition.

Jordan: So tell us about how even that award in your career so far has helped shape your approach to governance in general.

Jessie: What it did is, winning that award gave me an observer role around Venture Taranaki. And when I tell you the people around that table are next level: knowledgeable, they are connected, they speak a whole different language. That was just really cool to see. That was the opportunity, being able to network with the board members around Venture Taranaki, where I thought, actually, this is a really cool space to be, and I need to progress further here. This is something that I want to put into my future goals.

Adam: So I just want to back up slightly. There may be people listening that kind of don’t understand the governance. So I think I’d like you to just kind of, in one sentence, explain that. But what was then going through your head, of kind of going, that’s somewhere I want to get into?

Jessie: So, again, opportunity arose where Dairy Trust Taranaki had a New Zealand Young Farmers appointed trustee. And I got shoulder-tapped, and I thought, cool, we’ll see what this is all about. And the cool thing with Dairy Trust Taranaki is that young farmers role is full voting rights. And so you are in, and you are learning, and you’re involved. And that’s where my governance journey started, was actually in that young farmers position. And then, I think two years later, I thought, let’s try get on the New Zealand Young Farmers Board, and nailed it. It’s hard yakka. I have some empathy, to a point, for politicians, because trying to campaign to get on that Young Farmers Board was the most stressful time of my life. My family did not enjoy being around me. It was rough.

Jessie: But what a cool experience, because you have so many opportunities, Emerging Director Award being one of them. And just like, we got IOD membership out of being a part of the Young Farmers Board. And that really kind of kickstarted that exposure to what those opportunities looked like. Would I say we were the best board members on the Young Farmers Board? Well, probably not, because you’re still members. And so you’re really fighting for the people. And so you’re too operational. And that’s where my biggest growth has been in the last couple of years, especially chairing Dairy Trust Taranaki: strategic thinking is the only discussion we are having. And that is hard in a room full of farmers talking about four farms.

Jordan: So actually, that goes back to your question. So just for that overview about what governance actually is, I think you’ve described it kind of there perfectly, around, it’s more the strategic thinking as opposed to the doing. But just explain that a little bit more.

Jessie: So I would explain it that the board set the what, and then you’ve got your management team doing the how. So you want to go, right, there’s some beautiful strategies out there. Even, in a hundred years’ time, what does our business or our organisation look like? Some people do it in pictures, which I think is cool, because you can visualise it. And then you have the team to go and actually achieve that by different milestones. And so it’s very much setting the what it will look like.

Adam: And which do you prefer? Do you prefer setting the strategy? Or do you prefer doing the do?

Jessie: I think that’s why I like having a day job. So I can really balance that out, because it is really neat thinking strategically. It is an art form, and I’m still building on that. But then being able to go to my day job and do the doing is a really lovely balance.

Adam: So you mentioned about sitting in as an observer for Venture Taranaki. What did you learn about governance? What did you learn generally about how business works? But more importantly, what did you learn about yourself?

Jessie: I learnt that Taranaki is doing some epic things. And actually, the work that Venture Taranaki does to put us on the international map is huge. But what I learnt from those around the table, I think, is how to ask questions. And I think I remember I was…

Adam: Think or know?

Jessie: Think. No, no. I was being mentored by Charlotte Littlewood at the time, through… what was that? Through the Wheelhouse Mentorship Programme. Because it’s intimidating. You’ve got a huge board pack of stuff that you’re not really on top of, because it’s not your thing yet. And you’ve got these really smart people around the table. And she… because they were so open to me taking part in those meetings, especially from a rural perspective, because they didn’t have that around the table at the time. And Charlotte said, have three questions. Just highlight three questions that you want to ask in that boardroom. And that was such good advice, because actually then you don’t have to worry about having 10 questions that don’t hold weight. But you know those are three questions that you really want to ask. And I’ve taken that advice forward. It’s been really cool having that.

Jordan: How did you get that opportunity for that mentorship?

Jessie: Through the Wheelhouse. Getting regular emails. So sign up to their emails if you want those opportunities, especially if you’re in the not-for-profit space. They have a lot of training courses around governance, entry-level governance. But also they have the mentorship programme, which was cool.

Adam: But also there’s a couple of other mentor programmes.

Jessie: There are. There’s one that VT do. And then there’s also Business Mentors as well.

Adam: So just listening to you there kind of highlighted seeing the opportunity and kind of going, yes, and I’m going to take that opportunity, rather than sitting there and just waiting.

Jessie: You’ve got to take the opportunity. And like I say, not everyone has a 100% strike rate. But if you don’t give it a go, then you never really know what’s going to happen.

Jordan: What’s the biggest epic failure you’ve ever had in your career?

Jessie: Interviewing Dame Kiri Te Kanawa. I was not prepared. And she knew it. Big time. I think I called it Downtown Abbey. She was very quick to correct me. I had no idea what the show was about. I did not have… To be fair, the time got moved earlier. But I’m interviewing one of New Zealand’s treasures at the Oamaru Mail. What an opportunity. And as a 24-year-old, I was not prepared. And I would say that was a pretty epic failure.

Adam: Be prepared.

Jordan: It’s those learnings, though, that are really key, eh?

Jessie: Oh yeah. I’m always prepared. I think I was here five minutes early this morning. I am never late anymore.

Adam: So what’s the difference between being prepared and just being in the moment?

Jessie: Being prepared, especially if I think of my day job, I can’t just turn up to a meeting and hope that it goes smoothly. The agenda has to be set. If there’s any papers that need to be read prior, they need to have been read. Being in the moment, it’s like turning up and saying, hi, how was your weekend? What’s this meeting about? But being prepared is, you know what your outcome is for that meeting, and you know what you need to go in, what energy you need to bring to the meeting, what you have to prepare for, what you expect others to have prepared for. And I think you actually have far better outcomes when you’re prepared versus… Don’t get me wrong, there are moments that I love just being in the moment. But when you’re talking your professional work life, I think preparedness is key. Especially in the leadership space too. You have to lead from where you stand.

Jordan: And so what are the best ways to prepare for those type of things from your perspective? Is it just time? Is it just truly understanding and setting some of those milestones, I guess?

Jessie: There’s so many different tools that I use now. There’s a thing called PEP training, and that taught me to, if I’m sending a meeting out, have the outcome, the purpose, why people are in the meeting, in the invites. Everyone knows their place in the meeting.

Adam: Do they?

Jessie: Yeah, they do when you send that out. And then I have a lot of back-to-back meetings. And so I love the wee tool that Outlook creates, where an hour is actually 45 minutes. And so then you’ve got that 15-minute break in between, to decompress from that previous meeting and then get your mindset into the next one. Don’t do back-to-back meetings. And please stop putting meetings in after three o’clock in the arvo. It’s just shocking.

Jordan: It’s just not worth it.

Adam: I think for me, though, that comes down to understanding self, and being able to communicate with your peers and saying… Because some people actually work better at three o’clock.

Jessie: This is true.

Adam: Some people are really great at 7.30 in the morning, and it’s kind of finding the balance, kind of going, where’s the energy going to be the best suited?

Jessie: Power hours.

Adam: The thing for me is I always loved giving people the permission, and going, if you’re not adding any value and you’re not taking any value, walk out. Because every minute that we’re sitting here, there’s a price on your head, there’s a price on your head, there’s a price on my head. We’ve got to make sure that we’re adding value. We want you to be 100%, right?

Jessie: And I love that, because my leader holds that space for us. If you can’t be here at 100%, and you’re not being able to bring your best self…

Adam: A speaker friend of mine in the UK speaks about, if you’re going to be in the room, be in the room. So if your mind is elsewhere, the kids are sick, or you need to speak to that client or customer, go and do it. Because otherwise, you’re physically there, but you’re just not adding anything to the meeting. You may as well not be there, right?

Adam: So you’re 33, you’re female, you’re working in some interesting spaces, the governance. I’d just love to know some of the things that you’ve observed, and some of the challenges that you’ve had to face and overcome.

Jordan: And in the primary industries, the rural sector too, yeah?

Jessie: Where credit’s due, it’s definitely getting better. But being a young female, especially one who didn’t necessarily grow up on a farm, it is hard to earn a farmer’s respect, because if I go and say, you need to do this and that, I’m like, who are you to tell me what to do? And so it comes back to that relationship management piece: you actually have to build that relationship with them before you can actually get in and earn their respect and their trust, because it’s their business. So I’ve had to learn how to do that quite strategically.

Jessie: There’s been some moments. I remember when I worked for Taranaki Federated Farmers, and there was a whole change happening at government, and essentially we were the messenger, and I was the punching bag. And it’s funny, because afterwards, a lot of the time, they will actually come up to you and say, hi, I’m really sorry about that, that was inappropriate, and then you have a conversation. But if you think of a lot of farmers, they’re working in isolation. Their home is their business, so they don’t even leave the property a lot of the time. So sometimes you might be the only person they’ve spoken to all week, and if they’ve had a bad day, you sometimes get it.

Jessie: But as a female, I definitely have had to earn my respect, probably a little bit more than my male counterparts. And setting boundaries has become a really important part in my role. We were saying earlier, I’m actually not very good sometimes at setting boundaries, but if I know that my line’s been crossed in terms of someone’s approach to me, I’m very good on that.

Adam: And look, people respect boundaries when you set them. You’ve just got to have them there. So how do you do that?

Jessie: I verbalise it very quickly. I have had interactions where you could tell there wasn’t a lot of respect in the room, and I just said very quickly, here is literally my boundary. You cross it, I will leave. I would love to help you, and I’m here to help you, but you’ve got to want me to be here, and if you don’t, I will go. And like I said, we were great friends at the end.

Jordan: And I guess that’s something you’ve got to learn and practise.

Jessie: Yeah, it’s definitely a learn-on-the-job thing, and I’ve got a young team member who is still learning that whole process at the moment. And I’ve said to her, unfortunately, you get comfortable by being uncomfortable, and you just have to keep doing it. It’s not something you can go to a course and then walk away and know how to do it.

Adam: It sounds to me, Jessie, as if you’ve kind of got quite a thick layer, and you don’t take things personally.

Jessie: No, you can’t, eh?

Adam: Well, I think you say that, but I think a lot of people do.

Jordan: Do you think that’s something that you hold? Or is there things that you do, or that you are aware that you do, that help with growing that thick skin? Because mentally it must be a pretty challenging kind of role that you have as well, you know?

Jessie: I think you know the difference between someone being frustrated about something and someone being frustrated because of you. And that’s my line in the sand.

Adam: Is that also your goal, though? In the fact that you go back, when I ask you the question, describe yourself as a leader, instantaneously it’s empathetic. So your ability to have empathy with the other person, you’re able to distinguish and separate and kind of go, they’re projecting onto me, it’s not actually about me, they’re just frustrated with the system or whatever’s going on. That’s just real skill to have.

Jessie: Thank you for saying that, because it’s probably not something that I’d recognise, but you’re right. Like I mentioned, the NAIT system, it has been around for 13 years, and the website’s not changed. So it is a bit clunky. And so we get a lot of frustrated farmers, because it is a legal requirement to use it, but it’s not always seen as user-friendly. And so when you’re trying to tell farmers that they need to be doing their movements or register animals in NAIT, you do get their frustration. But I know their frustration’s not with me, it’s with the system. And all I’m there to do is break down those frustrations with them, so that when they leave our support session, they actually know how to use it.

Jessie: And that’s, again, one thing I’m having to really coach one of my team members around: it’s not you, it’s them, essentially. Unless they say, you did this and you’re terrible at this, it’s actually not about you. As soon as that becomes a thing, you walk away. You don’t need to put up with that. But unfortunately, sometimes they’re just frustrated, and that’s okay. We all get frustrated.

Adam: You mentioned there coaching. What’s the difference between a mentor and a coach for you?

Jessie: Probably not a lot, actually. Because I think if you’re mentoring, you will be coaching, naturally. I think for me, my biggest growth in the last year is knowing when I’m needing to manage someone and when I can coach someone.

Adam: How do you know?

Jessie: Because if you’re having to manage someone, that’s probably where your clear and kind is coming in. But when you’re coaching someone, you’re looking at what those opportunities are. Where do they want to be going? What do we need to push and pull to get you to that place? And it’s actually having a really open conversation around growth, versus, you did not meet your KPIs, what are we going to do about it?

Jordan: Just on that coaching thing, you’ve obviously got a team that you’re working with. How many people are you coaching, and on your team, at the moment right now? And how do you manage that?

Jessie: So I’ve got five, and they’re actually all across the North Island, which is really hard to manage, because you are then coaching or managing online.

Jordan: I was just going to say, so I got the feeling a lot of your conversations weren’t sitting down in a room, and that it was online. So challenging.

Jessie: Executive presence and your body language is so much harder online. Yes, you’re still seeing each other, but it’s like shoulders down.

Adam: Kind of push back on that. So I’ve worked online for the last 10 years, and it’s a conversation that keeps on coming up. And I would say that it’s actually more so. So how you show up, as an executive presence, there’s more conscious awareness of having to do it online. So your responsibility, accountability as a leader is: I need to be the best version of myself, whether I’m in person or whether I’m online or whether it’s hybrid. So just the shift in pattern, and kind of going, what do I need to do?

Jessie: Oh, 100%. The difference it makes.

Adam: So let’s just talk about the work that you’re doing with regards to the dairy industry, et cetera, farming. How are things at the moment, and how are things looking for the future?

Jessie: Look, milk price is looking pretty promising at the moment, which is really neat. Obviously, you’ve got the balance of when milk price goes up, everything else goes up. And so it is really hard to make that work. But we’ve had an interesting season. Obviously, we had our drought, which wasn’t great, especially around South Taranaki and coastal. A lot of people had to dry off early, and that means you don’t have the milk income that you’d budgeted for. But we’re in full swing of calving at the moment. Even beef prices and lamb prices are looking really promising. Per head cost of just buying our dairy cow, really good at the moment. So all of those things are looking really strong.

Jessie: And I think the future, let’s be honest, and this is, I guess, my optimistic view of it all, is that it’s always going to be there, and it is always going to support, especially, our region in Taranaki. It’s going to change, though. I don’t think farming can or should stay as it is. If you think of all these amazing opportunities that are there, especially with technology. And I guess I get to see it a bit more close up, being the chair of Dairy Trust Taranaki, because we’ve got four science and research farms. And so we’re trying to go, again, that strategic forward thinking, going, what are the challenges that are going to face the industry in five or 10 years? What can we do trials on now, to have really clear solutions for farmers when it comes, or say it won’t work? And so that’s really cool, because you’ve got robots that milk your cows and you don’t have to be there.

Jordan: Just give us an insight into the future, where you think things might go.

Jessie: I hope we don’t go too far down the robotics. I think you still have to have human presence. Because even if I think of Halter, I don’t know if you guys know Halter, you don’t have to have fences. Have you seen this, Jordan?

Jordan: No, I haven’t.

Jessie: It’s crazy. So you don’t have to have your real fence, because the Halter, it gives them a little vibration if they’re hitting where you put the virtual fence. You should see it, though, because they still put their head under the virtual fence, because they think it’s there. It’s hilarious. But it’s great, because it actually creates a whole lot of amazing solutions for farmers. That stuff’s really cool, because you can be more efficient and you can have less cost, so that when you’ve got all of these inflations across the board, you’re actually being able to really cut some cost down, which is fantastic for any business.

Jessie: I think Taranaki has a real advantage, because we’ve got smaller herds, to be able to really look at what the future of the industry looks like, because you’re dealing with lower numbers. So I think we should be jumping on that probably quicker than we are. But the diversification opportunities that we’re seeing in the region too are really promising. And again, Branching Out committee with Venture Taranaki are doing some really cool work there, and going, well, we’ve got this beautiful land. How can we create more business for the region, and more opportunity, and actually use land that we’ve already got, and farmers can diversify and have more opportunity?

Adam: Where’s the future for you?

Jessie: So the future for me, I’ve already asked my leader about a million questions about her role, because I’m like, I’m gunning for you. When you go. I really like an opportunity of being a general manager, and have that next step in leadership. But honestly, for the longest time, one of my career aspirations is to be the CEO of New Zealand Young Farmers, and go real 360. What a cool organisation. The members in there are just fantastic.

Adam: Why that organisation?

Jessie: I just love what they represent. You’ve just got all of these diverse young people, and not necessarily from farming backgrounds, but they just love connection, and they’re always creating learning opportunities, and there’s so many opportunities within New Zealand Young Farmers. And I just love that it’s really grassroots. As the CEO of Young Farmers, you’re actually not that far away from your members. It’s a really cool structure, and I just think I could add to that organisation.

Jordan: What age do you stop being young?

Jessie: 31. So I aged out. They kicked me out.

Adam: But you can still go for that role, CEO, obviously.

Jessie: Yeah, it came up recently.

Jordan: Wow. Did you go for it?

Jessie: No.

Adam: Why?

Jessie: I know I should have. It’s cool. My CEO at OSPRI, Sam McIvor, he said the same thing. He’s like, well, why aren’t you going for it? He’s like, I’ll check your CV out. Just give it a go. I didn’t this time. And I have my reasons, but I will eventually.

Jordan: How good. And that’s what you want. You’ve got to have those aspirations, those goals. And it all comes down to timing and patience and everything, doesn’t it?

Jessie: It’s all what I want.

Jordan: And I think you’ve kind of demonstrated that today too, that there has been a lot of timing, a lot of patience, a lot of learning, a lot of upskilling. I think that has been a really good conversation, and I feel as though a lot of the things I took away from that, the leadership piece, I think that’s really key, some real key lessons there, how to communicate and that communication. And I think also that main thing around, it’s not all just about the CV, but it’s about taking those punts, it’s about meeting those people, communicating, using the skills that you’ve got, and just going for it, you know? Plunging those opportunities. It’s really inspiring.