How to Find Clarity When You Have a Million Ideas w/Adam Harris

Jordan: Welcome to the For The Daring Growth Seekers podcast. We are going off mic today, Jacqueline and I, sitting down with a special guest, Adam Harris from Frank and Fearless. Now, Adam is an EOS implementer. We’ve spoken about EOS on the podcast a few times so far, so we thought we’d get him into the room. What he does is he sits down and helps businesses get clarity and get structure, and he was actually in the room when the idea for the name of this podcast was born. And for this conversation that we had with Adam, we’re going to break it up into two parts.

Jordan: In the first part of the conversation, we get into some of the collective headaches that so many business leaders are dealing with right now, why so many teams are getting stuck in businesses right now, and also the importance of adaptability. And we’re going to focus on the role of the visionary in a business, and what you can actually do when you feel like you’re moving in a million directions at once. So we’re going to kick into the first part of our conversation with Adam Harris from Frank and Fearless.

Jordan: We are very fortunate today to be sitting across the table from Adam Harris from Frank and Fearless, an EOS implementer. And it’s actually quite fitting that we’re sitting here on the For The Daring Growth Seekers podcast, because you were actually in the room and facilitated the conversation that actually got us thinking about that as a value. So it’s kind of a nice full-circle moment to have you sitting here with us.

Adam: And it was really such an exciting moment in time, just to kind of see it come to fruition, just like it just popped. And then just seeing your eyes light up was an honour for me.

Jordan: Taking a step back, obviously, we sat down with Adam and worked through our core values and re-looked at our niche and how we’re actually supporting the market and things like that. And once we figured those out, it’s then helped us build all these other little parts of the business that are now doing really well, like this podcast. It’s all kind of stemmed from that.

Jacqueline: Yeah, I think part of that journey was putting the effort in to get, as you say, those values that came about, and actually making them hit home. We’ve had values in the past, but did they resonate, and were we living by them day to day?

Adam: Well, and I think that’s it: are you hiring, are you firing, are you rewarding and recognising against those values?

Jordan: And I think the hard thing often is how do we turn away a prospective client because they’re not the right fit, either from a values perspective or they’re not our target market. And the other nice thing I see on our table today is we’ve actually got our new For The Daring Growth Seekers can coolers. If you’re watching the video, this is not beer. As much as I wish it was a can of beer in there, we’ve got some Almighty water in there. But to kick off the conversation so I can have a sip of that water, maybe a bit of an intro about yourself, your history, because I know you’ve had a pretty wild kind of history. And I say wild because I remember there’s a story around when you were an impersonator.

Adam: Oh, yeah. Okay. So I suppose the biggest thing is that I’m an opportunist. I see something and I just want to grasp it. And I do improv comedy now. But yes, I was a former professional lookalike, of a guy called David Gest, who was married to Liza Minnelli. He was on a programme in the UK called I’m a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here. So I was the manager of a Sunday league football, or soccer, team, and we all had nicknames, and my nickname was Guesty. He went on the TV and literally I must have had about a dozen messages from people that didn’t know. It was like, oh my God, you’re a doppelganger, you’re on TV. And I was just like…

Jordan: So you made some money out of it.

Adam: Well, I did make some money. But actually it was more the opportunity. The fact that he was twice my age, he’d had a lot of plastic surgery, he didn’t look particularly bad. And for about five minutes I was like, actually, I feel quite insulted. And then it was like, oh, where is this potentially going to take me? So I was on TV a couple of times, did a couple of other gigs. He was a D-list celebrity, but it just took me into different situations. I had a business supplying inflatable extras to the TV and film industry. That’s the other one.

Jacqueline: So I’m thinking like stadium shots, where they’ve got to fill it up.

Adam: Yep. And so there’d be these inflatable dolls in the audience.

Jacqueline: And you’d go around and set them up for you.

Adam: Absolutely, yeah. And we did some pretty big films. It was before… CGI used to be really, really expensive. AI now, you know, it’s kind of…

Jordan: Taking that over.

Adam: Yeah. But just everything I’ve done has always been like, yeah, why not? And actually I often say I’m a little bit like a chameleon, in that I kind of shed skins quite quickly. But for me, I need the growth. I need the challenge, because that challenges my mind, but also puts me in a situation where I’m in the learning zone consistently.

Jordan: How good. And then obviously you’ve made your way to New Zealand as well as part of this journey. Why the move over here?

Adam: So I’m married with two daughters. We kind of got to the stage where we just felt as if we needed to make a move. I’d been running CEO mastermind groups for about 10 years. I could just see that things were beginning to change. And this was before Brexit, and then before COVID. And then we came across this school that was being built here in Taranaki, where we are now, called the Green School. And it just felt like the calling. It’s like, that’s where we’re going. So again, the challenge of doing something differently, starting again, it’s been really, really hard. But actually I wouldn’t have changed it, because the growth that has come individually, from a business perspective, but then also with the family and the kids, has just been really, really great.

Jordan: And we caught up for a coffee a few weeks ago, and this just reminded me of that story there of COVID. I don’t even know if you know this, Jack, but Adam and I actually first met online, when I’d first started Done By Nine, on a Venture Taranaki webinar that Adam was the host for. And I just happened to be, oh, I can’t admit this, but I was Googling myself the other day on YouTube, and that video comes up of us on that. So we’d obviously met then, but we actually didn’t meet in person until maybe only a couple of years ago, really. Which is kind of crazy.

Adam: And that situation was really like, I knew that COVID was coming, because I could see what was happening with my UK clients. And I was turning around locally to, first and foremost, the Institute of Directors, and then the Chamber of Commerce, going, look, this is coming. Somebody needs to hold the business conversation, because people are going to have to move fast and quick. And people were like, oh yeah, yeah. And then when it did finally happen, it’s like, well, nobody knew how to use Zoom.

Jordan: So many learnings.

Adam: Exactly. Like, I’ve got a Zoom, you know, professional licence. Do you want me to host? Yeah, yeah, cool. But how are we going to run the meetings? Oh, do you want me to run the meeting? So I just went into service mode, and that’s obviously when we met.

Jordan: How good. Now you’ve got this business, Frank and Fearless, that you run with your wife.

Adam: Yep. So I’m going to be really honest. I found culturally there’s a real difference between working with people in the UK and North America, which is what I’d had, and then moving to this side of the world. I was having a lot of conversations with people, and it was, yeah, yeah, we’re really interested. It’s like, okay, but is it a hell yes, we want to move forward? Or is it a hell no? Because otherwise you’re just kind of stuck in hell.

Adam: So I’d had this brand, Frank and Fearless, for a while, and it kind of goes into what we were working on with regards to target market. I want to work with, or we want to work with, growth-minded individuals that want to push themselves and their businesses forward. So Frank and Fearless became kind of a qualification piece, in the fact that: are you a little bit like daring growth seekers? Do you fit with who we want to work with? Because if you don’t, just don’t want to speak to you. So that’s where it came from. So Frank and Fearless, it’s all about having more focus, more flow, and more fun.

Jacqueline: Nice. I like that.

Jordan: Now, you obviously go and work with businesses, facilitate conversations, give them guidance, give them structure and support. And I guess one of the big things I was really thinking about when we were prepping for this is: is there a big collective headache that you’re solving, or that you’re seeing a lot with businesses at the moment, in 2024, 2025? That seems to be really common, that a lot of people just need to realise that they’re not the only ones facing?

Adam: Oh, that’s a big question. I think for me, it comes back to a phrase that I often use, which is: clarity creates confidence. And often when I find business owners, business leaders, have a lack of clarity, they don’t know who they are, what they are, or what they’re supposed to be doing.

Jacqueline: So if you don’t have clarity at the top, it’s definitely not at the bottom.

Adam: Exactly. So whether it be EOS, whether it be as an independent director, whether it be coaching or facilitating with the CEO or the owner, a large amount of the work is actually around getting clarity. So if somebody’s listening to this and going, actually, I’m not really sure why we’ve got this business, not sure really who our customers are, then getting clarity in any of those particular areas, I think, is important.

Adam: With regards to some of the things I’m seeing currently, I think there’s some really interesting things going on. I’ve been really fortunate in my career to work with people like yourselves, who are like-minded; they want to grow, they want to move things forward. So actually any issue or challenge is an opportunity. So when you have that mindset, it allows you to be able to look at something and be interested in it. One of the reasons why I was late coming into this podcast is that I’ve just had an urgent one-to-one with somebody where the proverbial is just about to hit the fan, and it’s about to go public. But it’s kind of a case of: how do we shift this? How do we change the narrative? How do we see this as… because stuff happens in business every single day.

Jacqueline: It’s being adaptable, isn’t it? That’s one of the key things.

Adam: Absolutely.

Jordan: Agile.

Adam: Absolutely. And I think COVID was the prime example of this: those businesses that were able to, like you say, Jax, be adaptable, pivot, move fast and quick, rather than the ones that are just sitting and waiting.

Jacqueline: Poring over it again.

Jordan: Or waiting until we’ve got the perfect thing, instead of just running at 80% and getting the wheels moving.

Adam: Yep. Which then moves us into this aspect of best-level thinking. Based on the information that we’ve got at this moment in time, this is the decision that we’re going to make. And even if it’s a case of, we’re not going to make a decision for another week, we know and understand, we’ve got clarity sat around the leadership table or within the team, going, we know what we need to do. So I’m seeing that the more businesses and individuals are gaining that clarity, that allows them to then move forward.

Adam: You and I have spoken many times about AI. It now feels as if it’s gone from the early adopters into the collective. It’s still a case of how, where and what are we going to do? And more importantly, what are we not going to do? And then I think the other thing I would say is really defining and understanding who your target market is. When businesses are able to get that, it then allows them to really focus, making sure that they’re speaking to the right people and, more importantly, qualifying those others out. Is that enough for you?

Jordan: Yeah, I like that. And from what you’re seeing as well, from businesses that you work with, is there a common thing that you see with why businesses or teams get stuck and just can’t move forward? And are there ways to focus on that as well, and try and move past it? Are they stuck on, like you say, being unable to pivot, or unable to embrace AI, or unable to…

Adam: I think my observation is the rigidity of thinking. So if you look at things and go, this is the way it needs to be done…

Jacqueline: Rigid.

Adam: Then you’re in danger. Things are moving so fast, so quickly. And creating a culture. And again, it’s got to start from the top. It’s got to be inherent within the values within an organisation. But if you’re able to look at things from a wonderment perspective, or what if, or what might we do differently, then that’s going to challenge your own assumptions. If we’re stuck in doing what we’ve always done, we’re going to get what we’ve always got. And that cycle then means that, my thoughts are, if you’re not growing, you’re moving backwards very, very fast.

Jordan: I like it. Let’s chat about the leadership roles in a business. Or in some cases, not. And that’s kind of where I want to lead with this. So with EOS, going through that process with yourself, obviously the accountability chart is a big piece of that, where you essentially get much better clarity on where you sit in the business. And there’s two kind of core leadership people that I wanted to focus on here, only because you’re talking to them within this business, which is the visionary and also the integrator.

Jordan: So from the visionary standpoint, I’m keen to understand what are some of the things that are roadblocks, or things that just get into a visionary’s head? And I’m thinking like common things that you see, like someone who’s trying to be the visionary in a business, but they’re just getting it wrong.

Jacqueline: The challenges they face.

Adam: Yep. Okay. So maybe, and look, you can be as personal and throw some shit at me as well.

Jordan: Me too.

Jacqueline: He’s going to edit it out afterwards.

Adam: So I’ll come at it from my own perspective, because I’m a visionary. Right. So even today, on the way here, my brain’s just, I’m just overthinking. Often visionaries might have ADHD, if you want to put those labels on. But just thinking of ideas, new things all the time. I think for me, one of the challenges that I’ve had as a visionary over the years is that I never had that clarity. It wasn’t a case that the ideas have stopped, but for me, it’s now a case of getting into the habit and the consistency of knowing, okay, is that an idea for now, for the next seven days?

Jordan: Putting boundaries around how many ideas you can run with, eh?

Adam: Absolutely. Because otherwise, and some of the listeners may well have heard of what I call golden penny syndrome, it’s like, ooh, something shiny over there. Oh, let’s go and do that. And then a week later, it’s like…

Jacqueline: Spreading yourself and stretching yourself far too thin.

Adam: Absolutely. So again, having that clarity of going: where do I put… don’t stop having those ideas, but now knowing that’s an idea for the next seven days, or that’s a medium idea. Do those ideas align to the longevity of where we’re heading? Oh, okay, no. Great idea. Let’s just put it to one side. And I think the other thing for me is that I always felt as if it was me that had to do everything.

Jacqueline: Execution as well.

Adam: Yeah. And I don’t know about you, Jordan, because I’m not going to make any assumptions, but my execution at times is very poor. Great at the ideas, but then when it comes to, oh, just make it happen, just get it done, it’s like, actually, that’s the piece where I struggle, because I want the thrill and the energy of the idea. And for me, I love engaging with people and being in their space. So doing the execution, that kind of doesn’t really excite me.

Jacqueline: How about getting the confidence with some of the ideas that you’ve got? Does it then require you to go through that process of figuring it out, or using someone else, like an integrator, or someone else like a coach?

Adam: Yeah. So I think it’s a really good point. There’s a phrase that comes to mind, which is: our thoughts are only our thoughts unless they’re verbalised or written down. So having a sounding board to just bounce off, who really needs to challenge that thinking. One of the things that I’ve often, in my role as a coach working with people, is that I don’t have the answers, but I’ve got a lot of questions, to just get away the murkiness and allow things to settle, to go: actually, it’s a really great idea, but not now. Or, it’s a really great idea, but it’s never actually going to work. Or, actually, do you know what? You’ve helped me understand that’s not really what we should be doing moving forward. Okay, cool. Right.

Adam: And don’t take it personally. The people that I often work with can just move on to the next thing. But having that filtration, and having some level of process as a leader, is really, really important: to have that sounding board, to get that challenge, to know, do we move forward with this, do we put it on hold, or actually, do we need to qualify it out. That is a really important part, especially for visionaries.

Jordan: Right. So that’s the end of part one of the podcast today. The big takeaway so far from this half of the conversation really is that clarity creates confidence, and that it’s not about shutting down your ideas, but about creating that system to really filter them, so you can focus on what’s actually going to move the needle. As Adam said, it’s about having that sounding board to actually challenge your thinking, and help you separate a great idea for right now from a great idea for later as well.

Jordan: We’re going to be back with the second half of this interview in the next episode, where we’re going to continue the chat with Adam and switch gears to talk about the other crucial role in leadership as part of the EOS structure, and that is called the integrator. We’ll also discuss accountability, building a culture that allows for different conversations, and also what it really means to get the right people in the right seats. Hope to see you on the next episode of the For The Daring Growth Seekers podcast. Thanks so much for listening.