Ben Annabel on Building a Business, Burning Out, and Starting Again

Jordan: This week’s episode is slightly different, as last week on the Most FM Business Hour, which I co-host with Adam Harris, we had a real conversation with a local business owner that I just feel as though it’s too good not to share on For The Daring Growth Seekers podcast: Ben Annabel. He’s the founder of Recharge Group, and his story, I just felt, really covered the full journey of being a business owner. From having to start a plumbing business from scratch, to hustling hard to be able to scale it to 15 staff, and then actually having to make the tough call of having to exit that business because of burnout.

Jordan: I just found the conversation really interesting, as we talked about things like his approach to marketing, the focus he puts on his brand, his current strategy for going slow, sustainable growth. But more importantly, I just felt as though that we got into those real challenges that so many business owners face but don’t always talk about. The things like managing mental health, knowing when to make a change for yourself and your family as well. I just found this a really open, honest conversation about the realities of building a business, and I think the opportunities and the struggles he shares will resonate with you as well.

Jordan: If you haven’t listened to the podcast before, my name is Jordan McFadyen, and welcome to For The Daring Growth Seekers podcast. This is a podcast about how to build a business in the AI era, from marketing to all the other struggles that we go through on a day-to-day basis. And here is my conversation, along with my co-host Adam Harris, with Ben Annabel.

Jordan: Welcome, Ben. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.

Ben: Yeah, appreciate it. And I feel really privileged to be asked to come on the show. So thank you.

Jordan: Awesome. So look, I think let’s get a bit of history, go right back. I believe you’re based down in Hāwera, grew up on a sheep and beef farm, I’m guessing, down there.

Ben: Yes, that’s correct.

Jordan: And so tell us where it all started. You started on the sheep and beef farm, and then I believe you went into apprentice roles back in early 2000s, would it?

Ben: That’s right. So I grew up in a place called Aorata, which is about 20 minutes inland from Hāwera, on a grandparents’ sheep and beef farm. And really, really cool childhood, very hard-working parents, and they certainly instilled some decent work ethics in us, I suppose. We went off to New Plymouth Boys’ High School. So I started New Plymouth Boys’ High School in 1999, and did third, fourth and fifth form.

Jordan: Nice. Boarding down there?

Ben: Boarding school.

Jordan: What was that like, boarding?

Ben: Yeah, absolutely loved it. We came from, like I say, Aorata, which was, I think the primary school that I went to at one point had about 10 kids. And then off to intermediate, I suppose, in Hāwera, and then obviously a few more kids there. But came from a very small sort of little community, so it was great to… and actually most of the kids in my community were my age, and most of them went to Boys’ High as well. So I guess I started living with my mates at the age of 13 or whatever, and it was great.

Jordan: How good.

Ben: So, loved the school, did really well there as well, but left after fifth form. I got my School Certificate, which was the deal. I think my parents certainly would have liked me to have stayed on, but that wasn’t really on my radar. I knew that I didn’t want to go to university. I was pretty hands-on throughout my childhood, and just wanted to get stuck into a trade.

Jordan: And that’s what you did, chose plumbing.

Ben: Yeah, I managed to get myself a job. And so I started my apprenticeship in 2002 with Houghton’s Plumbing down in Hāwera, who were an amazing employer. And did a five-year apprenticeship, actually. Mine was a 10,000-hour, all paid for by the government back then, which was great. Plumbing, gas-fitting and drain-laying. And there was certainly a lot of really skilled tradesmen there. It was quite a decent crew, so lots of variety. Sort of spent a lot of time with different tradies and learned everyone’s little different tricks, I suppose. And it was great.

Ben: And I’m one of 40 apprentices, actually, that Houghton’s Plumbing have put through over the last 30 years. So pretty incredible from Robin and Glenis Houghton, in terms of, I guess, the injection into the economy of all of those employees. The impact it’s had on all of their families, and a lot of them have gone on to start businesses and employ their own teams now. So pretty amazing from one cup away.

Adam: Ben, what was it about plumbing? So you said you wanted to get into the trades. Why plumbing?

Ben: My grandfather was a plumber.

Adam: Right.

Ben: That didn’t actually have an impact on my decision, to be fair. I think it was just that was an opportunity that was available at the time. I actually hit one of my mates’ dads up for a building apprenticeship, and he maybe didn’t have anything going, I don’t know, but he put me on to Houghton’s Plumbing and said, give these guys a call. And the rest is history.

Adam: And just before we move on, you said that your parents would have preferred for you to have kind of gone on to university. Was there some tension there, or were you really, really clear that this is, I wanted to do something with my hands?

Ben: Yeah, look, no, they certainly wouldn’t have been pushing for university or anything. It was probably more just, I was only bloody 15. Oh, sorry, just turned 16, I think. So I guess they just sort of were a bit worried about such a young age to leave school and whatnot, but it certainly paid off, and no regrets whatsoever.

Jordan: I was just going to say, do you think that the fact that they were open, and kind of allowed you to give it a go and figure it out, is also a testament to where you are today?

Ben: Yeah, for sure. Definitely.

Jordan: Because sometimes you do think, and especially being a parent, you do think about trying to get that balance between telling your kids what to do versus just allowing them to go figure it out.

Adam: Well, my kids are a little bit older than both of yours, so I’ve kind of got that at the moment. Amelie, our eldest, got accepted for Victoria University last week, which is kind of where she wants to go. But it’s kind of like, it’s a bit of a dance, in the fact that how much do you push and encourage, and how much do you just allow them to… it’s a dance. So I’m just warning you guys, you’ve got it all to come.

Jordan: And so obviously with the apprenticeship, so you did that for five years in plumbing, what actually pulled you to a trade in the first place? What was the massive pull there?

Ben: Yeah, just growing up on the farm, I think I was just very hands-on. I was always out and about and getting stuck in. And I think just the practical side of me was, I guess, the main reason why I wanted to jump into a trade.

Jordan: But the reason I asked that as well is obviously because then the next part of your story is you went from being on the tools to actually deciding, I’m going to start a business. So what was that shift?

Ben: Yeah, so I finished my apprenticeship in 2007, and then my wife and I, well, my partner at the time, Tess, my wife now, we shot over to Australia, to the Sunshine Coast, in 2008. We spent a year over there. I was working inland from Noosa, in a place called Cooroy and Pomona. Very hot, humid, very hard, but amazing experience. Very similar plumbing, I suppose. Great boss and a really cool crew. And we actually really, really loved the Sunshine Coast. And end of the first year, Tess saw a house on Trade Me back here, back in Taranaki. And we’d been looking for a house in a wee bit of land. And actually, the reason we went to Australia in the first place was to try and save a bit of money to buy a house. And we managed to do that.

Ben: Tess found this house on Trade Me. We bought it sight unseen, got our parents to go check it out. And basically we moved home. Then I went back to Houghton’s for a couple of years. And then we shot away to London for our OE, and spent a couple of years in London, again, plumbing, doing what they call loft extensions over there. So there’s no room to build in London. So they take the attic and…

Adam: Or go below.

Ben: Or go below. Push the roof out a bit. And we basically spent two years chasing Kiwi and Aussie builders around London, putting a bathroom and a couple of radiators in the lofts. And had a ball. It was pretty much a two-year party, to be honest. Did a lot of travel. I think we ticked off about, I don’t know, 35, 40-odd countries.

Ben: So, finished London, and then we spent about six months travelling on our way home. We went through Nepal and India, and did Everest Base Camp, actually, first in Nepal. It was an amazing experience. A lot of travel down through Central and South America, and back home. And so that was 2013 by then. And that’s when I started Evergreen Plumbing. And I basically knew that if I could cope for two years plumbing in London, running my own colour there, I could certainly do it in bloody Hāwera.

Adam: So in London, you’re contracting, or kind of just finding your own jobs?

Ben: Yeah, no, contracting. Basically. So over there, it’s quite different here. There’s big sort of, I guess, big companies, maintenance companies, and then you subcontract to them. They find the work, essentially.

Adam: I’m wondering, what’s the point when the seed was planted, that it’s like, actually, do you know what? I think I’ve got the hunger and the desire to kind of start a business. Where did that kind of come from?

Ben: I think I’ve probably always had that. My family have always been sort of involved in business. My dad is a hell of an entrepreneur, really. You name it, he’s done it and started it and sold it and whatever. But my brother also, very much an entrepreneur. I think it’s just in the blood, to be honest. And I always knew that I didn’t want to just be a wage earner. I think I’ve got a bit of desire in me to make a difference, and I think it’s just in my DNA.

Jordan: And was there a point in time when you’re like, okay, cool, we’re going to do this, or I’m going to do this, about starting the plumbing business?

Ben: I think probably about six to 12 months before we left London. And look, this is not just me. My wife’s very involved in this decision, and I suppose we fleshed it out, and sort of saw it as the right thing to do. There was a real need for another plumbing company in Hāwera at the time. And we just had a crack.

Jordan: I’m a big believer that, especially with my own kind of journey and history, travel was a massive part of growing who me and my wife are today as well. Do you think that travel, and going around Nepal and India, and living in London and living on the Sunshine Coast, do you think that was also a catalyst to give you the, I don’t know, the experience? Just the life experience.

Ben: Absolutely, mate. It was unreal. I actually feel really privileged to have done that, because it is not that easy to do nowadays. I actually feel a bit sorry for the sort of younger generation, I suppose, in terms of, for us it was very easy. It felt safe and normal. There’s lots of other people doing it, and I just don’t know if that’s quite the case anymore. But in terms of the experience, it’s absolutely very humbling. We’ve seen some massive contrast. You go to India or Nepal and it’s eye-opening. But in a good way. You sort of come away from that with some real, I think, respect for where you’ve come from and the privileges we have here.

Adam: But I want to ask you about Tess, because we’ve not met before. But what’s really evident, by the research that I’ve done, is that you are a power team. And I literally was just thinking, as I’m sitting here, all three of us are actually working with our wives. So I’m interested, first and foremost: how did you two meet?

Ben: Tess and I met at school, I suppose. Well, she didn’t go to Boys’ High, clearly. She went to Hāwera High School. And I think we probably met just through mutual friends and parties, which they used to have back in the day. I don’t know whether they still have parties nowadays. Hall parties and all those bits and pieces. And then we got to know each other really well, sort of over a few years. And then I think we got together. I think Tess was about 17, I might have been, or 18, I suppose. And I’m 40 now, so it’s been a wee while.

Ben: And Tess, amazing. She’s a superhuman, really, to be honest. Absolute weapon. Huge part of Recharge. Her role in Recharge is the accounting side of things. So Tess is a chartered accountant. She came back when we got back from London. So we started Evergreen, but Tess went and started working for an accountancy firm, and they were incredible to her, a guy called Peter Philby. She started on the reception. And Tess is very, very driven and motivated, and Tess didn’t want to be on the reception. So she started studying accountancy, and went right through to chartered. And like I say, Peter Philby really looked after her.

Ben: And I guess because of the skills that she had in the accounting space, she was able to help us with Evergreen Plumbing. And I would honestly, I mean, we can talk about Evergreen Plumbing shortly, and the team and whatnot, but a lot of the success of Evergreen comes down to Tess, in all honesty.

Adam: How did you find, over the years, kind of working… you’re in business together, but you’re also living together at the same point.

Ben: Yeah. So Tess was never involved in Evergreen day-to-day, other than obviously doing our accounting side of things. But I think one of my big issues is bringing work home, and not… not issues, but I’ve really struggled to switch off. My brain is just always firing. And I guess that’s probably… it’s not a drama. We don’t have any issues about it. But I think Tess would prefer me not to talk business. But that’s hard to do sometimes. I just love business and I’m passionate about it. So I still need to learn how to turn off the business chat. In terms of how Tess and I get on in business and life in general, I think it’s all just one big event anyway, isn’t it? You can’t separate the two, really.

Adam: Yeah, we were kind of talking before we got on, and just before you got here, Jordan: people talk about work-life balance. I don’t know. I think when you’re an entrepreneur, it’s just life. There’s no lines, there’s no balance. Everything is kind of interweaving.

Jordan: Kind of just all fits in, yeah?

Ben: Yeah, big time. So, no, Tess has a huge impact on Recharge. She had a massive impact on Evergreen. I spend a bit of time away now with another wee business up in Auckland. So Tess picks up the slack, really, and like I say, super mum, super businesswoman, and she’s amazing with our clients as well. She really, really gets it from a tradie’s perspective. Obviously, we’re an accounting advisory firm for tradies, and she is just really dialled in that space. So it certainly makes things a lot easier for our clients when they can speak with someone who knows the industry really, really well. She’s just a good person.

Jordan: Shall we go back to Evergreen Plumbing just a little bit? Because I think that’s a real key part of your story as well. So obviously you started that from scratch, yeah? Did you have a couple of other people that you kind of started it with, or how did that kind of…

Ben: Sure did. So while we were sort of in the throes of heading home from our travels, I was in regular contact with a good friend of mine, Calvin Muggeridge, who I had worked with in the past, and managed to convince him to jump on board with me and start Evergreen. So I started it in December or November 2013, and then six weeks later, I said to Calvin, let’s go, I need you. And he jumped over, and it was the best thing ever. He’s a great guy, great family, very, very talented tradie, and I think the two of us, we were a really good combo. Calvin’s an absolute workhorse on the tools, very skilled. I was on the tools also, but I ran the quoting and invoicing and admin side of things as well. It just worked really well.

Ben: So 2013, started Evergreen, Calvin and I. I’d say we were probably six months in before we took on our first apprentice, and then probably not long after that, we started taking on more employees. So I think we probably would have been at about that, say, three-to-four-year mark, and we would have had maybe a team of six or seven, which was a nice wee number. And we operated from home. I had a workshop which I’d built, so it was quite low overheads. And one of the best things that we ever did when we started, and this was Tess’s input here, she just said, put 25% of everything that you earn away. So 25% of revenue every week, every month, whatever. Tuck it away, don’t touch it, it’s not your money.

Ben: So we did that from day dot, and pretty much within a couple of years, and I don’t want to sound like a bloody dick here, but there was a couple hundred thousand dollars sitting in our bank account, and we were all squared away with tax, provisional and terminal. From day one, because of that discipline, I suppose, we were financially secure, and that takes a lot of pressure off any business. Basically, with knowing that we had that fund available, or in the bank, and we were financially secure, it allowed us to take risks, I suppose, in terms of scaling.

Adam: Can you give us an example? Well, I absolutely agree with what you’re saying. I just wonder, is there a particular couple of decisions or risks that you were able to take?

Ben: Yeah, of course, mate. So I think, just in general, being able to take on bigger jobs. It probably would have been out of our league, in terms of the risk factor, but also the financial implications. If you take on a couple-hundred-thousand-dollar job, essentially there’s probably $100,000 of materials in there that you need to carry and whatnot. But just in terms of probably the financial side of things, all the security that we had allowed us to scale, in terms of employing and paying good money, which I believe we did, and I believe that’s important if you’ve got the right staff. It allowed us to invest in equipment, so we were able to sort of purchase equipment such as diggers, et cetera, rather than hiring them. I think there was lots of benefits of having financial security early on.

Ben: And to be fair, we hustled hard for that, too. When I say that we had this nice little fund tucked away, we were probably doing 60, 70, sometimes 80 hours a week. Really unrealistic hours, unsustainable, and we only paid ourselves $800 a week as well for the first couple of years. But our key goal was to build a really tidy cash account, and we achieved that, and that was how we got there. So like I say, it’s not super sustainable how we got there, but it set us up for a hell of a future, for sure.

Jordan: And how were you getting your first jobs?

Ben: There was a real need for a plumbing business at the time. I think there was a lot of work out there, and I guess both our families, so myself and Calvin’s families, have always been from Taranaki, so we had a big network, and that helped, for sure. And then as soon as we took on our first apprentice, Grayson, all of his network came to Evergreen, and then we took on another couple of lads, and all of their families, from the region, from South Taranaki. So very, very quickly built up a strong network and a strong customer base. We also dipped our toes in a few areas. We were working at Fonterra as well, and some of the oil and gas sites.

Jordan: Yeah, I was just going to ask that. Did you also make a conscious decision about the type of market you’d go for, as opposed to new builds versus commercial versus urgent plumbing versus repairs?

Ben: Well, yes, I wouldn’t say it was a conscious decision. I think we were keen to take on whatever we could at the time. We soon worked out what was profitable and what wasn’t. But I think the key, and it’s certainly evident now, which we can get into later, I suppose, having fingers in pies is a real crucial element. So having true diversification. When you’re trying to survive what’s essentially a really, really tough time, and it wasn’t tough back then. But what I’m finding with our clients now, the ones that have got fingers in pies, and they’ve got multiple clients across multiple industries, are really, really doing well. And then you’ve got some that are unfortunately not so well diversified that really have to hustle.

Jordan: But do you find that then that becomes a marketing positioning challenge as well, when you do become…

Adam: Jack of all trades.

Jordan: A jack of all trades, everything to everyone, as opposed to, to be fair, what Recharge does now, which is support for tradies. You’ve focused in on a real customer.

Ben: Well, I mean, for us, we had that diversity, diversification, and it was probably one of the key reasons for such fast growth in our company. So when I sold in 2021, we had 15 staff. So it scaled reasonably, 14 or 15 staff, it scaled reasonably fast. And that was due to the work. We really didn’t need to market in all of us. We were pretty consistent on social media, never trying to sell. It was all educational and entertainment sort of based. But I mean, we certainly did our share of marketing. But the work was just there, and the reputation was there, and the repeat clients, lots of builders.

Adam: I’m just wondering, Ben, because you started off in Hāwera. The place that you’d been for five years, were they still operational, that business?

Ben: Yeah, yeah.

Adam: So you, in theory, became their competitor. How was that? Did that go into your mind at any point, when you were kind of going up against them?

Ben: Oh, absolutely, because I was there for… I did my apprenticeship there, and then a few more years. So I probably did seven or eight, nine years there overall. But absolutely, it was actually quite awkward in many ways, because I have a huge amount of respect for Robin and Glenis Houghton, and then all of a sudden I’ve gone and become their competitor. And look, I’ll be frank, there was some of their employees came over to us as well. And I think, yes, it wasn’t… I didn’t enjoy that. There was no buzz in that. But essentially the guys came to us and made the move because they were ready for something different, and everyone needs a change.

Ben: But the good thing about Robin and Glenis, they’re just so down to earth, and there was never any beef, ever. Robin and I catch up quite often now, and he’s one of the, probably the most influential people that I’ve had in my life, really, if I think about the impact that he’s had on my life and the opportunities he gave me.

Adam: Well, yeah, because that’s kind of where I wanted to get to, in the fact that I kind of sensed that the way that he cared for you and brought you through on the journey as an apprentice… I heard you literally say, once you and Calvin have got to stages that you’ve taken on your first apprentice. So mentee becoming kind of mentor. I’d imagine that’s a really important phase for you.

Ben: Absolutely, and I think it’s important to carry that on if you’re in a position to. It’s not easy taking on apprentices, and it’s a hell of an investment for the first 12, 18 months, depending on the skill and the abilities of that apprentice. But I think if you’re in a position to, and the work is there, and you’ve got the ability to train people, I think it’s a really, really important thing to keep our industry ticking along. The trades industry in general, but certainly the plumbing industry, there is a huge shortage of plumbers. Massive shortage of gas fitters. And a lot of these employers, sorry, plumbing companies, they really do care about the industry. So most people are doing as much as they can to employ in those areas.

Jordan: So in the early days, it seems like finding that opportunity, taking a punt, finding some good people around you, building the cash and hustling hard. It’s just the recipe, I guess, eh?

Ben: Pretty much. That’s what it’s all about.

Adam: Ben, let’s just talk about the growth of the plumbing business. You were mentioning just off air the fact that you brought in a couple of other shareholders. Just tell us the story.

Ben: Yep, cool. So there’s probably a couple of things, actually, in terms of the growth. In 2018, a couple of lads approached us, that I knew very well, great guys, great plumbers. They were looking to go on their own, and I think initially the chat was around them maybe subcontracting to us or whatnot. And anyway, we sat down and sort of, over the period of a few discussions and meetings, we essentially created an opportunity where they could buy into our business. So through quite a unique structure, we achieved that. And so all of a sudden, Evergreen was owned by four equal shareholders: myself and Calvin, and then these two new lads, Chris and Sam.

Ben: And so that was great for business. It’s quite a unique model, multiple team members owning the business that they work for. But it’s a really cool concept. Not for everyone, but I think it’s a great opportunity for people to really feel like they want to come to work, the skin in the game. Also, and no doubt we’ll talk about my exit at some stage today, it’s certainly made for a hell of a lot easier exit when you’ve got multiple shareholders.

Jordan: So how many shareholders were in there?

Ben: There was four of us at this point.

Jordan: Four, okay.

Adam: So you say that it’s unique, but over the years, I’ve worked with a number of businesses that are like that. And I think when it’s working, it’s great, because, like you say, you’ve got skin in the game, the shareholding agreement is really, really clear. There sometimes is a challenge when you get to the stage of exit, and often what I’ve said over the years is, kind of start with the end in mind. So what’s some of the worst things that could potentially happen? What, potentially, when one of you decides that you want to leave? So when you’ve done that pre-work, it really helps to get to that point. So at the point then of which you decide, I’d love to know what made you decide that you needed and wanted to leave, and then the process that you kind of went through.

Ben: Yeah, cool. So in 2020, I had… and just on your point around being very, very clear around specific scenarios, et cetera, and being prepared for those, that just comes down to really tidy shareholders’ agreements.

Jordan: I was just going to say, because they can make or break things too.

Ben: Yeah, absolutely. And it saves a lot of awkward conversations.

Adam: Yeah, and it’s funny, because I’ve observed over the years, as people go, oh yeah, oh, we’ve got to pay a lawyer. It’s like, trust me, this is going to be the best whatever thousands of dollars it’s going to be. You’re protecting yourself, but actually, more importantly, you’re protecting the business, and the employees and the stakeholders. Because, Jordan, you’ve heard me say this before: clarity creates confidence. When you’ve got the clarity and the understanding, it allows for anyone, when the ambiguity then comes along, oh, okay, cool, we know how to deal with this.

Ben: Yeah, absolutely. So in 2018, I had an accident and I hurt my back, which led to… I sort of carried that injury for a good couple of years, or 18 months or so, before I ended up having a spinal fusion. The first of two spinal fusions, actually. So the first one, in 2020, was not successful, and I then had another spinal fusion in 2023. But essentially, I was in a lot of pain, chronic pain, and the headspace was starting to get pretty crook at that point.

Ben: And without sort of… I mean, I’m actually happy to talk about whatever, I’m pretty open book. I don’t really care about that sort of stuff nowadays. But essentially, just to jump forward, in 2021 I made the decision to exit, for both the headspace, the body. I’d also had a couple of shoulder surgeries and things. The body was… plumbing’s pretty hard on the body. Like I say, my headspace was a bit crook, and needed to give myself a bit of space and time, I guess, to get better, and I couldn’t really do that while running a team of 15, and I also couldn’t do the company the most justice, right?

Jordan: Well, I guess this goes back to, you’ve got other shareholders too, so you’re all needing to contribute the same amount.

Ben: Yep, for sure. And I was managing director, and the business, it was an amazing business, still is. But it also takes its toll, right? So for me, the right move for myself and my family was to…

Adam: Was that a long, tough decision? Carrying the burden and the weight and the responsibility of leading the business, and leading the responsibility of the other three shareholders?

Ben: No, I loved that. I loved the challenge. Like I say, great guys. They had full confidence in me. The business was humming before they jumped on board. There was nothing to change. It got better and better, and we had record sales year on year, record profits and things, and that was just down to everybody having a role, not fixing something that wasn’t broken, and everyone just cracked on, and we got on really, really well, and it just worked.

Jordan: Interesting, eh? And I guess it’s also having that courage to actually making that call, and saying, yeah, this is, I need to stop.

Ben: Don’t get me wrong, it took a fair bit of… I basically ended up in 2021 there just completely burnt out. My mental health was struggling, my back was crook, and like I say, I needed to make a big change. I took three months off work.

Jordan: I was just going to say, so you took a good chunk of time off.

Ben: Yeah. I come home one day, I think, and said to Tess, my wife, that we need to sell. I’m done. And this was probably just at, I guess, what you could call breakdown point. And Tess was like, hang on, mate, pump the brakes. She had really no idea exactly how my headspace was at that time. She knew that I was pretty busy and stressed, which is normal, every business person has stress in their lives, but this was pretty hectic.

Adam: Ben, who was supporting you or challenging you? Did you have anybody during that time?

Ben: Once I started opening up, absolutely, full wraparound support from everybody. But leading up to that point, probably kept most things to myself and just cracked on.

Adam: And I’d love to know, the point of which you kind of opened up, how long before that were you kind of internalising?

Ben: Probably a good 12, 18 months. Remember I had chronic back pain at this stage, and that has a big impact on your mental health as well, right? So, excuse me, I would say, yeah, a good 18 months.

Adam: And we’ll get on to the work that you’re doing now with kind of the retreats, et cetera. Knowing what you know now, what would you have done, or what’s the additional support that you probably needed during that time?

Ben: Well, I think now I’ve learnt to open up and talk. If I think about it, three, four years ago, I couldn’t even find the, is it courage? I don’t know, to talk to my wife about how I was feeling. And now, in the last two months, I’ve done a few bloody conferences where I’ve spoken for an hour about my feelings and my journey. So I’ve certainly learnt how big an impact it has on the healing process, I guess, when you actually start talking about it. So to answer your question, I’d say if I could go back 18 months before that, if I’d probably opened up and been in a position to talk to someone, now, whether that’s counselling or just telling my business partners how I was going, it could be a completely different scenario.

Jordan: Do you think it’s also the industry that you’re in, that you kind of gave yourself that pressure?

Ben: Yeah, maybe. We never had any financial pressure, we never had any lack of work. I had a lot of staff.

Jordan: But I’m even thinking that masculine type of pressure, like a plumbing type of thing, and what’s that point where it’s from some niggly thoughts to actually, I’m at a stage of burnout. Because it’s kind of one of those things, like you’re saying, I guess unless you talk about it and figure it out with other people, then you’re only kind of basing it against yourself, I guess.

Ben: Yep, absolutely. I really, really encourage anyone who is in that tough headspace at the moment, burnout, that stress, chronic stress, et cetera, just bloody reach out to somebody.

Adam: Yeah, I think there’s a challenge, which is twofold. The first and foremost is that there’s not a huge amount of socialisation. I think things are getting better, and again, we’ll come on to the work that you’re doing now, and if I think about the wellness, especially within the trade space, the wellness conference that’s coming up. So I sense, for a lot of people, actually, there’s a lack of awareness and normalisation around, actually, this is what burnout kind of looks like. So when you don’t know… I think there’s that point. And I think the other thing is that, and they’re kind of interlinked, the lack of people just asking and having depth of relationships, especially within men, and I do a lot of work with men, men’s groups, et cetera, is this aspect of: is it okay to say that I’m not okay?

Adam: So when somebody says to you, oh, hey, Jordan, how are you? Yeah, I’m all right. And then just having the ability to go, no, come on, Jordan, what’s going on? And actually, when you’re just able to hold a little bit more space, then you’re able to give somebody else the permission to tell you what they’re really thinking. Because otherwise we’ve been… I can’t speak for we. I’ve been conditioned over the years: don’t say how you’re really feeling, push your emotions under the bed, et cetera, and just consistently carry on.

Ben: Yep. That’s pretty much the industry.

Jordan: And look, this has been the catalyst for then you… for example, I had a listen to your podcast that you did with Venture Taranaki, and on there you also mentioned that this was the catalyst, that experience was the catalyst of starting up Recharge Group, where I also noticed that you focus quite a bit around wellness as one of the metrics, you know.

Ben: Really, yeah. So we’re an accounting and advisory firm. So basically, Tess and I sold Evergreen, our share, sorry, and of course I needed a career. I’d started, scaled and obviously sold a very, very successful trades business. I know how to build a business, I know how to systemise them and manage staff, and so there was a real opportunity there, I feel, to create a business where we could help other tradies do that. And it made perfect sense: Tess, obviously, in the accounting space, and myself in the advisory space. And of course there’s no competition. There was only positives that could come from this. And it was really important for me to incorporate the wellness side of things, because if your headspace is crook, generally business follows, and vice versa.

Ben: If business is struggling, your headspace is going to struggle. And one of the key things that happened when I took three months off, when I was crook, before I made the decision to sell: anyway, Tess booked me on this men’s wellness retreat up in Coromandel, with a guy called Carl Muir, who’s got a business called Provider. And I think it was on that retreat… I wouldn’t say the retreat itself was life-changing, but it gave me that… There was three other blokes on there, complete strangers, and weirdly talked more to them about what was going on in my life, right from childhood right through to where I’m at now. I spoke more to them than I’d spoken to anybody else in my entire life, and that was probably the real kickstart that I needed.

Adam: Did that surprise you, Ben, that the space that was being held, that you were just able to kind of just open up?

Ben: For sure. And it was facilitated by Carl, who’s a qualified pre-cure health coach, and a really nice environment, and lads that were all there for the same reason. So that probably is why I felt it was so important to… so that inspired me to create my own retreats, which no doubt we’ll get to. But I think it’s just so important that if you’re going to have a successful business, your headspace has got to be the best it can be, and I wanted to be able to create that opportunity for my clients. Hence the concept of keeping the two very, very interweaved.

Adam: It feels as if your story and your background has really just driven something that you needed or wanted, when you were going through what you were going through, that didn’t exist, and now that’s kind of been the driver to kind of create what you’ve now gotten.

Ben: Yep, definitely. Yeah, absolutely, you did right. I do a lot of work with a lot of tradies here in Taranaki, but also I’ve got quite a few clients now in Auckland and Wellington, and we have plenty of strategy sessions, et cetera. But then in between those strategy sessions is coffees or a beer or whatever, and they’re just as important as the actual strategy session, the check-ins, and you just get so much value out of that. And that’s the kind of offering that I want to keep delivering or providing, because it is so important.

Ben: And you think about some of these business owners who are great tradies, and let’s be honest, some of them don’t understand business very well, but they also don’t have anyone to go home to and talk about business or their struggles. They might have a wife or a partner or whatever, but they also might not be business-minded. And that is a few… Yeah, so essentially we’re an advisory, sort of an accounting firm, but a full wraparound support package as well. And it’s not weird. It’s all pretty… like, I’m just a bloody normal bloke that happens to have been through some stuff, and I’m quite happy to talk and help other lads get through that sort of stuff. And that’s a cool concept, and it works really well.

Adam: So how’s it all kind of gone down? Because, again, if we go back to when you were going through your struggles, you didn’t know what you didn’t know. As you’ve started kind of going out there and kind of marketing it, and conversations, et cetera, was there some resistance in the early days? And is now a large amount of it kind of coming from referrals?

Ben: Resistance from other clients? From my potential clients?

Adam: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah, well, actually, when we started, we had a big influx of people, because they knew Tess and I really well, I suppose. A lot of our mates own trades businesses. There was a lot of… and we’d proven that we could create something reasonably decent. So we had our first sort of onboarding of clients really, really quickly, and we started working with them and getting amazing results. If I’m honest, we have had some pretty incredible results. And then the word of mouth starts. And so we don’t do too much marketing. Don’t do cold calling. I like our clients to come to us because they really want to, or they really need to. When you sort of put that pressure on, you pick up the wrong people, I think.

Ben: And we certainly have a few… there’s a few clients out there that are on board, and amazing people, but you need to get stuck in, and you need to be prepared to actually do some work as well in this space. And there is a lot of resistance from some people, and it’s just because they get so busy, and they don’t focus in the right areas.

Adam: So how do you qualify? Do you qualify people out?

Ben: Oh, look, we don’t. I’d certainly never turn anybody down in the wellness side of things, ever. But there are limits, I suppose, in terms of the accounting and advisory, and where we can help. Firstly, they have to be a trade. We do have a handful of others, but they need to be a trades business, because that’s what we know, and that’s our niche. But there are some factors that we need to consider when we do take on a client, in terms of, we certainly won’t promise them we can fix them if we don’t believe that we can, and we’re quite honest about that. We can’t help everyone, and sometimes it’s just too far gone. We can help them in areas, but if we’re honest and we’re realistic, sometimes it’s just too far gone, and then we can help advise them around what might be the best step.

Jordan: And it’s funny, you say you don’t do a lot of marketing, but I actually think your marketing’s great, because what you do do is you communicate really well about who you’re serving, how you do it, and you connect that. So it doesn’t require you to do cold calling and all that other stuff, and go out and do campaigns and things like that, because you’ve dialled so far into who you actually are talking to, and who you actually serve, you know?

Ben: Yeah, thank you. And also we pick up a lot of work… I’m sure I can talk about Venture Taranaki for a second. Venture Taranaki, absolutely amazing in terms of what they offer our local business owners and our community. And through some… it’s called RBPN, but it’s basically a funded training programme. There’s a bunch of us that are approved providers on that. And so there is a big need for support out there. I’m very privileged to be on their list of approved providers, and I certainly get a good bit of work through Venture Taranaki. And it’s great in lots of ways. Sometimes they lead to become full-time clients. All of them lead to becoming friends.

Jordan: So tell the audience about the retreats: who they’re for, how often you have them, and what you kind of do on them.

Ben: So the retreats were inspired by the one that I went and did myself, in the Coromandel. And initially I created them as a tradies wellness retreat, and I still do those, but I’ve since also started offering just retreats for groups of mates, dads and lads, or dads and daughters, couples, business partners, et cetera. But if we just speak to the tradies wellness retreats: three to four days. So we’ve got a family farm down in a place called Wakamara, about 20 minutes south of Hāwera, 2,500 acres, beautiful farm. There’s a really nice house out there, which we’ve done up, beautiful setting.

Ben: And we spend three or four days. We just do some cool activities: knife making, hunting, if everyone wants to go for a hunt, if not, it’s not important, fishing, make sausages and salamis, ice baths. We bring in a yoga instructor, do a bit of broga. We do breath work; we have an instructor come and teach us a bit about breath work. We dip our toes into a bit of meditation, and just help people understand what meditation is in its very, very basic form. Cook over fire. Do some really cool stuff over a few days.

Ben: And we work through basically a wellness workbook, which I wrote, and that’s all about building a bit of a lifestyle plan, identifying a few key changes, and we dive into a bit of lifestyle medicine, which is essentially good food, good sleep, good exercise and socialising. So, yeah, we get stuck into those. They’re good fun. Plenty of laughs. No alcohol on the tradies wellness retreats, and really, really good food. And I love them. They’re as good for me as they are for…

Adam: I was going to say, because in my experience, when I’m running a retreat, I’m focused on the people that I’m working with, but also, at the same time, there’s an ability for me to drop into a different space as well.

Ben: Sort of drop in and out of that space, though, I find. You’re on your feet all day when I’m hosting. I do it properly, so you could be up at six in the morning and getting to bed at 11 at night, and that’s just how it is. But it’s an important offering.

Jordan: How often are you running?

Ben: In all honesty, it’s probably every two to three months I might do a retreat. I would love to do more. Finding the time is an issue, and then also there’s a financial factor as well. And essentially, it’s not actually the financial side of things that the clients find tricky, because they’re not actually that expensive, but it’s the four days off work, which, ironically, is the issue in the bloody first place. But anyway, so that’s the tradies wellness retreats. And then I do other retreats as well. In fact, I’ve just finished one yesterday. So Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, had three lads celebrating sort of a joint 30th that their wives put on for them, and very fun.

Adam: I know because of what I do, but I’d love for you to kind of share the changes in individuals that you see, from when they first arrive to when they leave. What you observe, and the change.

Ben: I think I try to make it as comfortable as possible. I think I get on reasonably well with people, so I would hope that they feel relatively open right from the get-go. But certainly by the end of it, they are very relaxed and ready to make a change, and quite open.

Jordan: What’s the future hold for you and Tess and the business?

Ben: I think we’ll just keep chipping away with Recharge. We’ll just keep, like I say, keep plugging away. We won’t overload ourselves. We do that, we just end up not being able to serve everyone the best. We’re not out to break any records anymore. Just try and help as many people as we can, but do it effectively.

Jordan: Where can people find you?

Ben: Instagram, Facebook. Otherwise, we’ve got a website, recharge.co.nz, or rechargegroup.co.nz. I think you’ll find us pretty easy.

Adam: Really appreciate you coming in. Learnt a lot. Love the work you’re doing. So on behalf of the community, those that you’ve helped and those that you’re going to help moving forward, thank you for your service.

Jordan: I’ve found this really interesting, really good. And like I said, I’ve been wanting to chat with you for a while, actually. And I think that your story is really inspiring: the fact of what you’ve been able to build, exit, kind of acknowledge your health, and then rebuild, and continue to service people. I think that’s really inspiring. So I’ve found it really good.

Ben: It’s welcome.