Building a Business & Life Together: Celebrating 5 Years of Done By Nine

Jordan: Well, welcome to the Marketing Mindset podcast. My name is Jordan, and I’ve got a very special guest in the studio with me today. Now, they say that you shouldn’t work with animals or children when it comes to films or podcasting or radio, because it’s very difficult. No one mentions about having to invite your wife into your podcast.

Jordan: Jacqueline is joining us on the podcast today and, well, there’s kind of a reason that we wanted to invite you on here. Firstly, welcome.

Jacqueline: Thank you. Thank you for finally having me.

Jordan: Oh, it’s a bit like that, see? It’s already started. So we thought it could be a little bit of fun, because we are now rounding out. We’re going to be starting to celebrate, I guess, over the next month, our five years with this business, correct?

Jacqueline: Five years, the big five.

Jordan: So we wanted to have a bit of a look back at the past five years. I know you’ve prepared a few questions that you were keen to chat to me about. There’s a few things that I can chat to you about as well. But essentially, what I wanted to do was, it’s slightly different than a normal Marketing Mindset podcast. So instead of chatting just about a different marketing topic, we actually just wanted to share a little bit about our journey in business, our journey in business together. And…

Jacqueline: Essentially, turn the tables on you. A little bit. Put the questions on you.

Jordan: Fair enough.

Jacqueline: And turn this around.

Jordan: I think that’s fair. So that’s the plan for today. But I’m going to start by actually putting you on the spot. A little bit of an intro. So, your background. So, obviously, we’ve been married for…

Jacqueline: Oh, no. Oh, you’re going to put a number on this?

Jordan: 14 years.

Jacqueline: Yeah, you’re right there. We’ve been together for 20.

Jordan: This is technically your second business, yeah?

Jacqueline: Yes, second business. So, obviously, I had a salon first, and then we started this in lockdown.

Jordan: Yeah, we did. So that was an interesting time. So let’s go right back to 2020, which is when this business kind of kicked off. So I think we’ve shared the story a lot around I was working in the travel industry at the time. COVID was obviously not the best friend to travel.

Jacqueline: No, definitely not the best friend to travel.

Jordan: So we took the jump.

Jacqueline: Well, you took the jump.

Jordan: But let’s go back to taking the jump, and where we were at that time. So just remind both you and I, and also the audience, as to where you were currently at, your headspace at that time in 2020, as we’re going into lockdown.

Jacqueline: Lockdown. Lockdown with a baby on the way, number four.

Jordan: So, yeah, that’s the big one.

Jacqueline: That was a big one. There’s me… a salon that was, doors were closing, and business was no longer operating.

Jordan: And then there’s me knocking on your door saying, I think I might take a redundancy package. And should we start another business?

Jacqueline: Yeah. That was a lot, when you look at it now.

Jordan: So what were you thinking? What were you feeling? I’m keen to understand.

Jacqueline: What was I feeling? I guess we were a little bit anxious, uncertain. But at the same time, if we’re going to do it, we might as well do it now, because we’re young, kind of fit, and are healthy. So let’s just go. So we did. It’s kind of like that first run, right? You’ve actually got to put on your activewear, get your shoes on, and get out the door and just go.

Jordan: So essentially, me getting a redundancy package, us having our fourth child, that’s kind of like the chucking on your running gear analogy. Essentially.

Jacqueline: So, yeah, looking back over five years. So what was your original vision, at that point of time, leaving the travel industry to start this business? What was the vision that you had? I’m interested to know.

Jordan: I’ve always thought that we could help people in different ways. I always thought that there’s more ways that we could help, and there’s also more ways that we could create a life that supports our, and when I say our, I’m talking about your and mine, goals, I guess. So we’re big, avid travellers, for example, and we essentially wanted to be able to create a life where we don’t need to make a lot of money, but we need to create and get a lot of time back to be able to spend with our family, and be able to go on big travel adventures and things like that. So that was kind of like that first vision, I think, from my point of view, that I kind of wanted to create that type of life.

Jacqueline: Yeah, so it was about creating a lifestyle.

Jordan: I think so.

Jacqueline: Change, as well as, obviously, having something that you’re passionate about.

Jordan: Yeah, but then being able to build a business that I knew that I had some good skills in the marketing space. Combining that with your skills of being able to run and set up and actually make a business work. And then combine that with, even with what we’re doing now around communication, and being able to actually communicate that and try and help as many people as possible. So I think combined all together, that’s kind of where I was sitting.

Jacqueline: It’s pretty messy to start with, though, wasn’t it? Really. Dining room table, kids, noise.

Jordan: Dining room table was real. Yeah, that’s a really good point. And if we look back over those initial few years, we can’t say it was all roses either.

Jacqueline: No, it was a lot of hard work.

Jordan: There’s some stressful moments, because, again, we were setting this business up. If we think back, we were setting this business up with a full household. We were just having our fourth child. Literally, the fourth child was born in May 2020. So we were trying to record videos. We’re lucky enough now that we’ve got a space in office where we can record these videos and these type of things. But back then, like you said, kitchen. Can you remember the setup? It was recycling container on top of a box, on top of a laptop, and the kids’ toys shoved to the corner.

Jacqueline: Pot plant brought in.

Jordan: It’s true, but then the big thing was, as well, we had to then record those videos and record content or do sales pitches or send out proposals. We’ve always tried to send a video with our proposals to clients, and we would have to try and shut down. During COVID lockdown, we’d have to shut down the entire family. Either try time it during a nap time, or get them all down to the other end of the house in a game with Duplo or Lego, so that from the dining room kitchen, I could have to myself to try and get a video recorded.

Jacqueline: Doesn’t it make you a whole lot more grateful for the space in this office right now?

Jordan: But I think it’s also a cool reflection, I guess, of that everything does kind of take a bit of time. Because I think the other thing for us was we came into this business with no real capital. It’s not like we had cash saved up to put into the business. We literally had, essentially, a runway, a redundancy runway. And I believe, I can’t remember the exact amount, but it was about four or five weeks it got down to. And we kind of said to ourselves, we can survive four or five weeks. Essentially, if we get past that, we’re screwed.

Jacqueline: So when was that point that you actually realised and connected with perhaps a client, or the pivoting point that you’re like, we’ve got this and we can do it?

Jordan: I actually can pinpoint it. And this is something I’ve tried to focus on up and down over the past five years and something. And it was a post that I did on LinkedIn. And it was my first kind of vulnerable post that I did on LinkedIn. And it was around a kid’s book that I read. And that was also that opening as to, oh, actually, the personal brand is actually really important, as well as the business you’re trying to build. Because I kind of did a vulnerable post around reading this kid’s book that…

Jacqueline: “Maybe”, I think it was called, “Maybe”.

Jordan: Yeah. And it was essentially teaching kids around, maybe you’ve got more to offer in this world. Maybe you’ve got this. Maybe you’ve… And it was one of those ones. And there was this line, I remember something like, sometimes things will be hard, you’ll get knocked down, but you’ll always get back up on your feet, that type of thing. And I decided to write a piece around that. And that was actually the catalyst, because that post did really well for me.

Jordan: And it was one vulnerable post, but we were able to pick up some really good interest. We actually picked up a client from that post as well, a client that we still work with today. So Nick Carey from Green Meadows Beef had seen this, and it was one of those perfect things in business that I think…

Jacqueline: Builds a relationship.

Jordan: Well, yeah. But also, it’s that there’s always a bit of luck and timing in these things as well. And it happened to be when he read it that there was one of his team that was about to go on maternity leave, and I was able to fill that gap. And so, coming as a contractor, there’s always that luck, I guess, that comes into it. But then, yeah, luck’s one thing, and timing with COVID and everyone wanting to go online is another thing.

Jacqueline: You’ve still got to do the work, though, right?

Jordan: Well, yeah, that’s only going to get us how far.

Jacqueline: And you’ve still got to grow with the client.

Jordan: If that was only going to get us how far, but we’re still working with Nick and the team at Green Meadows today, five years on. That doesn’t happen from just my first LinkedIn post five years ago. That then comes into how we actually work with that client, build the relationships over that time.

Jacqueline: And I think using Green Meadows as an example, when we first kind of kicked into that relationship, we didn’t have any processes. We had an idea about what we wanted the process to be, but at that stage, we had a brand name. The process in the operation has definitely grown over the time.

Jordan: Yeah, we had a brand name. I was fortunate enough that I had skills in being able to build a really basic, simple website. But apart from that, we just worked hard, hard graft.

Jacqueline: And I also think it’s part of the journey, right, with Nick and the passion that their team have and our team have, and just empowering them to hit their goals. It helps each other out, right? They hit their goals, we hit our goals, and we grow. We grow together, and we adapt and change along the way.

Jordan: True. Yeah, that’s really true. And I guess that’s what the whole thing has been around, even over the past five years. And if we go back to those days as well during lockdown, obviously, we’re trying to hustle with getting our first few clients for Done By Nine. And you’re also trying to navigate COVID lockdowns in a service-based business at the same time.

Jacqueline: Yeah, which was pretty much, our business was non-existent for those eight weeks.

Jordan: So can you talk us through, and, I don’t know, are there things in there that you can remember, any big lessons you kind of learnt over that time, over those, well, it wasn’t even that year.

Jacqueline: It was really, for a service-based hair salon, it was a challenging 18 months. I think lockdown in a service-based industry went far beyond just lockdown. The minute the doors got open, there was the high impact, the high demand, that rush, and trying to be true to who you are and your loyal clients and customers that you had to look after, with the spacing and the limitations of how many people could be within the building, was a challenge. But then to then have to navigate vaccinations, all of that was another saga that happened right on Christmas time, which is meant to be our most busiest peak time of the year, mandates. Oh, there’s another hurdle. It was just one after another after another. So I think lockdown did have a long-term effect on businesses differently.

Jordan: So obviously you’re a prior owner of that salon, so we were very fortunate enough to be able to sell our shares in that business because, well, let’s talk about that actually, firstly. So what was the deciding factor around deciding to go all in on what we’re doing now? And essentially, we kind of co-founded this business, but then I was kind of running it in those first maybe two years. What was that thing that made you go, oh, maybe we can do this together, type thing, as a husband and wife business duo?

Jacqueline: I think, obviously, there was that drive and jumping all in at the start, and you having to trust yourself and go with it. But then also the juggle became real, both of us trying to run businesses, and the time just essentially got hard work trying to navigate a family. And then I’d obviously been in the salon for, what, coming up close to seven years? It was kind of feeling the itch, something more to sink your teeth into, something to change. And if we were going to change, it was a time to change and grow together. And when the opportunity comes to sell a business, it’s a…

Jordan: You take it. And again, it goes back to that luck. It goes back to that timing. And it just kind of worked in that luck and timing.

Jacqueline: Timing, and I think the stars were aligning, and that passion for us to go travel. In a service-based business, you have to be present. You have to be on the floor. And if we had goals and dreams of travelling, we needed to do that with a business that was more agile and that we could work remotely, which is essentially what we did when we went to Mexico.

Jordan: Yeah, we’ll go back to that, because I want to talk about that a little bit more too, because that was a cool thing to remember back to. But I guess the other thing we’ve always said, and we’ve… So we try and have retreats. Not really a retreat. How do you want to say it?

Jacqueline: We kind of go hard and then we try and stop for a weekend.

Jordan: Yeah, but we try and go away for a weekend and just reset. We usually try time it when we have to go, I don’t know, see our accountants in Auckland, or go meet with a business coach that we’re working with at the time. And we’ll always try and at least have two nights away where we can go to a fancy restaurant and…

Jacqueline: Good food.

Jordan: Probably drink too much and then kind of let it all out, yeah? And I think those type of things are really good, and that’s kind of helped us get aligned to be able to make those big decisions about should we be selling this? Is our life too chaotic right now? We’ve always embraced the chaos, but we can kind of also see when there’s a bit too chaotic, do you think?

Jacqueline: Yep. There’s definitely times where it has got quite hectic and a little bit too chaotic, where we’ve had to probably rein each other in at times. Rein each other in, as in, to help get each other back in line. There’s been a fair bit, obviously with the Australian clients, there’s been a fair bit of travel over there. And that does come with its pros and its cons as well.

Jordan: Yeah, true. The travel time can be taxing. It can be a good time to get stuff done.

Jacqueline: Yeah, but I think it’s also been interesting that we’ve worked out, this is obvious too, but we’ve worked out just how much it does actually impact your health, when you are having to travel and when you are having to spend that time away. Oh, it sounds exciting, right? All the travel and the flight, but it’s actually quite taxing on the body. Keeping up with it. And then there’s that client relationship. It’s so, so crucial and so important, but half the time that is early morning breakfast, late night dinners. Then you’re into the meeting with them the next day, doing the strategy. Travel on the road can definitely be go, go, go.

Jordan: I think so. And I think, so this is another thing that we discuss when we do have those nights out, when we’re having our retreats as well, where we try and think about, obviously, back in those early days, it was that struggle of us literally having to do everything. So we were running the books. Obviously, we’ve always had really good people that have supported us. So we’ve had really good friends that have helped with managing the books in those early days. We had some good connections that allowed us to speak in front of audiences in those early days. So we just hustled really hard.

Jacqueline: Would you say, looking back now, in that first year or two, that it was scrappy?

Jordan: Oh, it was definitely messy. It was definitely scrappy. There was definitely some, no, I wouldn’t say all-nighters. There was definitely some late nights. And then I think there was definitely people that helped pull us through, and they probably don’t even know it.

Jacqueline: Just those friendly faces making you a nice fresh coffee in the morning. And saying happy vibes, and you’re like, yep, no, we’ve got this. Keep going. Keep going that extra 1%. Keep pushing and you’ll get there.

Jordan: Is there ever a time where you think about giving up, running a business?

Jacqueline: No, I don’t think there’s ever a time I don’t think of giving up. I think it’s getting the space, going and getting that coffee to perhaps change the perspective. Somebody says something to you and you’re like, oh, okay, yep, you’re right. And it’s pretty grateful to be able to, yes, it can be messy, but control your own day, on a daily. At the end of the day.

Jordan: And I guess that goes back to one of the big goals that we had in business as well, that we wanted to be able to build a business where time was one of those things that we could control. But then in saying that, it can be busy. There can be some big days.

Jacqueline: Well, yeah, it goes two ways. It goes both ways. Because obviously we still need to actually do the work with our clients, and actually build those relationships, spend the time, but also trying to run our business in the background, yeah?

Jordan: So there are some definite, you’re on, you’re on. I don’t think the switch is ever off. I think the switch remains on, but it’s like this, isn’t it? It’s up and down, up and down, up and down.

Jordan: And so, you asked me before about the pivotal moment where I saw that we had a business with Done By Nine. When do you think you saw that we had a business?

Jacqueline: I think I saw when we had a business was perhaps when we got the office here and we set up. Because I think it gave that separation from just a work from home. We had a place where clients were coming in. It sort of gave us that next step up that, yep, we’re going places. And also the collaboration aspect as well.

Jordan: So by that stage, when we got this office, we had one employee working for us. Chels. And so she would, we would work remotely. We would meet.

Jacqueline: I don’t know how she did it at the start.

Jordan: Yeah, we would meet at Ozone. We’d have two kids around us. Because Ozone’s got the big table there, or…

Jacqueline: How many times she played cards.

Jordan: Or cars with Alfie.

Jacqueline: And I think just being able to then have a hub here, for the team to come in. And then obviously when we came here, as well as when we got Renee to join the team. And so we were starting to get a bit more vibe. We were starting to get… And we were needing collaboration.

Jordan: Yeah. We were needing collaboration. We were needing other voices, other ideas, to help with the strategies and pull the team together to get the growth that the clients wanted. I had this conversation yesterday. So we’re just onboarding a new staff member onto the team at the moment, and he was asking about the coffee machine. And that actually made me reflect as well. I remember at the time, remember that was a big purchase.

Jordan: Even when you think about it now, the coffee machine we got, what are they worth? Five, five and a half, six K. That was a big investment. It was a milestone. I feel like that was one of our goals of, okay, when we hit this and we get here, we’re going to treat ourselves. We’re going to treat ourselves with the coffee machine. And we’ve always wanted a nice coffee machine. We were lucky that we’ve known Tana and Adriana at Proof & Stock Coffee for a very long time, and they were able to give us some good recommendations. And that was one of the things I really wanted. If we’re going to have an office, we’re going to have a space to go to, we need to be able to pull a really good coffee.

Jacqueline: Okay, so here’s the true question. Who can pull the best coffee in the office?

Jordan: Between you and me, it’s right.

Jacqueline: Oh, come on.

Jordan: Your milk frothing game needs a bit of work, especially with oat milk. That takes some talent. I’m terrible as well, but yeah.

Jacqueline: But I do think that the coffee machine, and it’s funny that the small little purchase, the small little investment was actually a big part of it as well. I feel like it’s a big part, but it’s also quite a good conversational piece when new clients come into the office, isn’t it? It kind of calms people down. It starts the conversation flow. It just puts everyone in a good vibe, because clients are coming in, and you’re having some big discussions about their business, right? It’s quite personal level, so it just softens the mood and the vibe and relaxes the environment.

Jordan: Then the other big goal that we had, and we’ve talked about it a little bit so far, was time, travel were two big things that were really important to us. So you skip ahead a little bit, you managed to sell your shares in your salon, which was great, and it allowed us to, we got a little bit of money, but the big thing that it gave us that was our goal was it gave us time, your time back into the family. Because obviously you’re essentially CEO of this business, but also CEO of a family at the same time.

Jacqueline: Yeah, it gave us the time to put a bit of time and energy back into the kids, but then, I think, start supporting you behind the scenes in areas that would then free you up to focus on kicking off a podcast, or driving the business forward and making sales.

Jordan: But it also allowed us to do that other big goal of, we decided to pack up, and a lot of people find this interesting, and I was on another podcast last week, where the host got stuck on this trip to Mexico that we did, and that we were able to run a small, young business remotely from Mexico, and we did it for three months. So we left in 2023.

Jacqueline: We left in October, and we got back in February.

Jordan: And then we got back, start of February ’24. So tell us, from your perspective, why the trip?

Jacqueline: I think it’s kind of like the coffee machine, eh? It’s kind of a bit more of another milestone. To be able to hit a business goal, but a family goal, and be able to go, okay, we’ve gone overseas this far, why not push it out a little bit further? It’s the end of the year. School’s kind of wrapping up.

Jordan: And so what are some of those things that you thought we need to have solid before we can even think about doing a trip like that? Were there some of those things that you’re like, we’ve got to make sure that we’ve at least got this?

Jacqueline: Obviously, the budget and the accounts and all that stuff was fairly aligned, but we had a really great team around us. We had good support, our teams had great communication, the operation systems were not all in place, but were building, and we were getting traction, and it was kind of a good time all around in terms of business and family, age, to kind of push ourselves on that next adventure. The adventure wasn’t always easy. It wasn’t always sunset and beaches and cocktails. It was definitely hard work and a juggle. But we were working, again, to our own time, in a location that we wanted to be in.

Jordan: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it’s interesting, eh, when you look back at some of those crazy things we have kind of done over that time, and what you have achieved. But I guess one of the big things I’m just thinking about as we’re talking as well is that it’s easy to look back and think five years, how fast it’s gone. But when you start in 2020, when we actually go back and think about actually how many hours, actually how much stress, how many ups and downs you go over across that time. I know we’ve spoken about the coffee machine. What are the challenging conversations that we’ve had to have?

Jacqueline: Between us or between other people?

Jordan: Oh, I’d say both.

Jacqueline: I think we definitely can push each other’s buttons, in a good way, in a bad way. But different perspectives, different point of views, right? Don’t you?

Jordan: Yeah, 100%. So what do you reckon is that thing that makes it work between you and me, as in two co-founders who also happen to be husband and wife?

Jacqueline: What makes it work? I think it’s the communication, and being able to be true to ourselves. Somebody can think they’ve got a great idea and you’d be like, no, that’s rubbish. And be like, okay, well, let’s break it down and talk it through.

Jordan: And I think it’s also just about, essentially, and I know we always, well, not always struggle, but we always have conversations about this, about just trying to let each other have that space. And I guess that’s been one of my big learning curves as well, especially as you embed yourself more and more into building this business beast that we want to achieve together, and how we can really focus on each other’s strengths and allow each other’s strengths to kind of come through.

Jacqueline: Hold space for that.

Jordan: Yeah, I think it’s holding space and allowing it a different perspective, because how you see things is sometimes not how I see things.

Jacqueline: Which is a healthy thing too, yeah?

Jordan: Oh, definitely a healthy thing, because we’re playing to our strengths and our weaknesses, right? So it’s that seesaw, it’s that balance. And I know we’ve been going on now for a half an hour, so we’re going to wrap this up. And I think we may have to come back for a part two to discuss kind of the second half to the business, once we actually started building out the different processes.

Jordan: I think this has been really good to kind of understand, and even just chat through now with you, around some of those early days and some of those early challenges we had, but we haven’t really focused on even the past couple of years, where we really started to build out our processes. Again, we’re onboarding a new staff member at the moment, and even he had mentioned the processes and everything just seems so tidy and well organised, and like a well-oiled machine. In our head, maybe not, but I think it would be cool to kind of share how we’ve done that together.

Jordan: But I guess the other big thing I just wanted to kind of ask is just around where you see the business going. It’s coming into five years, where do we see it kind of heading? Where do you see the business going? I’ve got my views on where I see marketing going as a service that we provide. But how about our business? What are some of the things that you see?

Jacqueline: One of the key things that I think I see is perhaps we grow within other areas, in terms of we may have another hub in Australia, for example, to help support our clients over there. I can see us getting some growth that way. And perhaps obviously you’re going to go further with the podcast. And I also see that, how is AI going to affect our business? That’s the big question right now. How are we going to adapt, and how are we going to run with that?

Jordan: Nice. So we’ve got some challenges. And I guess we’ve even discussed some of the challenges. It’s all positive things. It’s all cool things. We’ve got some big goals. And again, maybe we come back and actually chat around. The other thing I was really keen to chat to you about was we also are going through a programme called the EOS programme at the moment. So maybe we sit down and actually chat about that as well.

Jacqueline: Definitely. Sounds good.

Jordan: But look, I really appreciate it, because I know, again, you’re very busy running the CEO of our household, versus also running our business and doing everything behind the scenes that makes the business work and makes the staff happy, and the clients actually get billed and pay on time and everything. So, yeah, I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down and actually do something in front of a camera.

Jacqueline: Oh, I know. Thanks for having me.

Jordan: And look, like I say, I reckon we might continue this conversation if people are interested, just to learn a little bit more about how we have worked. We definitely are not the poster children of a working couple.

Jacqueline: Definitely not.

Jordan: But we’ve made it this far. We’re getting things done, hey? We’re building a damn good business, and there’s probably a lot that I’d be keen to try and share with as many other couples as well around how they could potentially do the same. So, yeah, again, thank you so much.

Jacqueline: Thanks.